Auto Update Apps through Aurora Store

GI1

pxlkng just tried the Play app again and it seems every app needs me to click install. It’s really frustrating. I never had this issue on iOS. Even random apps like BBC and Booking com ask for confirmation. They are all already installed. The setting in Play are set to automatically update apps but it does not work.

I originally installed most apps using Aurora. Could that be the issue?

pxlkng

GI1

There are a few requirements for unattended updates. Apps can only do unattended updates on apps that they are the "installer of record" for, meaning that they have installed or previously updated this app as well. If you are trying to update apps with the Play Store that you have installed from another source, this will require a confirmation prompt. Once you have updated an app once with Play Store, any successive updates should be able to go unattended.

GI1 just tried the Play app again

This wording seems to imply that you are usually not using the Play Store. If this is the case, this might be the reason why you are getting the confirmation prompt.

As a reminder, Aurora Store is not recommended and for normal usage¹ with apps from the Play Store, you should only use the official Play Store with sandboxed Play Services.

¹ Excluding some niche special use cases like bypassing Play Integrity on app-listings. Otherwise see my previous message.

DeletedUser495

GI1 Have you tried Aurora Store > Settings > Updates > Automatic updates > Check and install available updates automatically?

GI1

pxlkng I did install everything using Aurora originally and I do have Google Services installed. I don’t like being logged into the Play Store as I am then logged into all the other Google apps including Maps. I am hoping the potential Account Scopes feature will eventually fix this.

With Autora I would have installed anonymously to begin with. I then tried using a Google account with Aurora but this did not fix the automatic updates. Now I have been trying with the actual Play Store app which is not ideal.

Maybe I can try signing into my account on Aurora and redownloading the apps? But you are saying I should not use Aurora? The problem is if I’m signed into the Play Store app Google can link all my apps including Maps with my location

GI1

DeletedUser495 yes I still have to click Install for each app after the updates have downloaded. It does not install automatically

pxlkng

GI1

This is expected because Aurora Store does not have working unattended auto-updates.

pxlkng

GI1 But you are saying I should not use Aurora?

Yes, Aurora Store has security issues and no privacy benefit over sandboxed Play Services on GrapheneOS. You should avoid it and only use the official Play Store with sandboxed Play Services.
You can create an anonymous Google account not linked to any PII or phone number from you for the most privacy.
This is possible by creating the account from in-app over a non-suspicious IP address, meaning no VPN or Tor.
Usual recommendation is to do this from a public place with public WiFi.

GI1 the actual Play Store app which is not ideal.

It is ideal. Installing Play apps from the official Play Store is the most secure and private way, as well as the only recommended, to obtain Play Store apps.

n3t_admin

pxlkng Usual recommendation is to do this from a public place with public WiFi.

excuse my ignorance; but what exactly is the point of doing that when you will be using that Google account all the time after that anyway, leaking your IP address?

GI1

pxlkng the issue is you need an account and login to use Play Store. Even if you setup as anonymously as you can Google will be collecting data across apps. They will know who are just by being connected to your home router with Google Maps accessing location. They can track your movements and will figure out who you are fairly easily. Grapheneos really need to find a way to stop Google signing into all Google apps on the phone. At least with Aurora you can sign into Google without it logging into other Google apps on the phone. There is benefit to using Aurora. What is the risk of installing through Aurora? I do t see what privacy you are giving up?

pxlkng

n3t_admin

The point is creating the account on a non-suspicious IP to skip the number requirement that Google introduced as anti-abuse.

Using it with a VPN afterwards should be fine.

23Sha-ger

n3t_admin

You are only using that account later to download apps from the Play Store.
That's what you are supposed to do with it at least.
So Google will know that IP 1.2.3.4 downloaded apps X,Y,Z.
If you are using mobile data you are behind NAT anyway, so there is very little "leak" potentially, if any.

n3t_admin

pxlkng Using it with a VPN afterwards should be fine.

I guess you mean "unless you use a VPN 24/7 all that effort is worthless". I think this should be mentioned when explaining the public WLAN procedure.

23Sha-ger You are only using that account later to download apps from the Play Store.
That's what you are supposed to do with it at least.
So Google will know that IP 1.2.3.4 downloaded apps X,Y,Z.

Since you won't be revoking network permissions for Play Services afterwards, your real IP will be leaked. It also doesn't matter if your mobile carrier uses NAT or whatever. Residential IPs also have NAT and are dynamic.

GI1

pxlkng you can just use a random temporary SIM card for the number but the point is you will be signed in to the entire phone if you log in to Play Store. Your account will be linked to Google Play Services, Google Maps, Google Photos, GBoard and much more. Sure you can turn the internet off on some apps but you need it for Maps.

Google will know where you spend most of your time and will quickly figure out your home address by tracking the movements through the account and nearby devices. It will build a profile using different apps to learn who you are.

Also if you take any photos who knows if Google can access the face detection information. There may be able to track notifications through Google Play Services. An account exposes you because it links across the phone. This to me is still a big weakness in Grapheneos. Apps are sandboxed but the link between Google apps is still there.

If you are signed into Play Store click on Google Maps or Photos and you will see you are also logged in there

23Sha-ger

n3t_admin
So in that sense your IP is leaked to Google by visiting any website that uses analytics, Google Cloud, embedded
YouTube video, a map, and countless other examples. If that IP cannot be associated to an actual identity, this
data is worthless. I can't think of any realistic threat model where hiding your IP from Google just to download publicly available apps would be valid.

n3t_admin

23Sha-ger If that IP cannot be associated to an actual identity

This is only a valid point if your anonymous Google account is used exclusively outside of your private WLAN/VLAN and frequently visited places like your workplace, gym and so on. Assuming that you don't live alone, it's pretty easy to link your anonymous Google account back to you through family devices on the same network, unless they also use GOS and don't leak anything anywhere.

pxlkng

@GI1

All of this is not unique to signing in. Even if you get your apps from Aurora and don't sign in, all Google apps containing Googles libraries can and very likely will still talk to each other. This would allow Google just as well to correlate everything to one identity and figure out who you are, if they wanted. If you don't want this, simply don't give Google as much data, for example don't use Google Maps. It can only access what you actively grant it. If you don't grant any special permissions, out of the box it can only access minimal data, basically nothing important.

But everything you described isn't specific to signing in and Aurora Store doesn't avoid all of this tracking and correlation, you are simply making wrong assumptions. Signing in is not the issue.

GI1

pxlkng but with no account there is no central point to collect and log the data. There is no account on the phone to store the data. With an account everything from all the Google apps and more is collected for that account. It’s terrible for privacy using a Google account no matter how you set it up.

For Google Maps it’s an essential app for most people. I have Organic maps and others but there is no comparison.

Why do you believe Aurora is bad for privacy?

pxlkng

Correction, not "all Google apps" but all apps from the Play Store, not only ones from Google.

GI1

pxlkng

pxlkng you are not signed in with Google to the other apps that are not Google. I thought they were supposed to be sandboxed so Google can not access the data on other apps? They can only access the data in Google apps? That’s why it is supposed to be a de-googled phone. If you sign into the Play store it is no longer de-googled but the other apps Google should not be able to see the data and they should still be sandboxed. The other apps can see what other apps are installed on the phone but they should not be able to see the data.

With an account you have a central point to link all the Google app data. This would not happen from other 3rd party apps and the data should be secure and sandboxed. Its the signing into an account that brings all the data together for the Google apps. That’s why Aurora was created.

For example Google Maps is sandboxed from the Play Store and then they are both sandboxed from Google Play Services so they can not see the data between apps. But if you use an account all the data from all the apps can be linked. For Google to link everything it would need to create some kind of account or link to do this. If you don’t sign in or use an account it makes it much more difficult

pxlkng

GI1 but with no account there is no central point to collect and log the data. There is no account on the phone to store the data. With an account everything from all the Google apps and more is collected for that account. It’s terrible for privacy using a Google account no matter how you set it up.

This is simply wrong, an account is in no way required as I already explained. Data can be collected, correlated and stored without an account.

GI1 That’s why it is supposed to be a de-googled phone.

The purpose of GrapheneOS is not de-googling. De-googling is an ideological term that often hurts privacy and security more than it benefits.

GI1 I thought they were supposed to be sandboxed so Google can not access the data on other apps?

Apps are indeed sandboxed, but they can still communicate with each other over IPC based on mutual consent. Play Services are not required for this. The Google libraries bundled with apps from the Play Store can run on their own and communicate across apps.

GI1 With an account you have a central point to link all the Google app data.

Again, an account isn't required for this, this happens also without an account.

GI1 Its the signing into an account that brings all the data together for the Google apps. That’s why Aurora was created

It is not. And Aurora Store does absolutely not prevent any of this.

GI1 The other apps can see what other apps are installed on the phone but they should not be able to see the data.

Apps cannot just access the data of other apps, sure, but that isn't required if they contain Google libraries that can communicate over mutual consent IPC with each other and potentially share and correlate data between each other.

de0u

GI1 But with no account there is no central point to collect and log the data.

I have no idea whether or not Google in particular uses correlation of IP addresses and times to correlate ANDROID_ID values (info) across apps... but even if Google doesn't, tracking libraries in apps could do so.

DeletedUser495

GI1 Let the talkers talk and doers do. I would say pay more more attention to the choice of the apps you use rather than the source they come from. But also pay attention to the source :)

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