Is GrapheneOS for me?

128bitpotato

Actual question further down if you find my post too long. Wanted to give some more background first as to what I'm looking for.

My privacy journey started about a year ago and since then I've tried to find a good balance between privacy and functionality. I've gone from not caring about my privacy at all to striving for almost complete anonymity. Now I'm trying to find a path that is as privacy friendly and secure as possible while still maintaining every day usability and conveniences, e.g. I won't switch to Linux as I don't have the time nor energy to learn it right now and windows offers a reliable gaming experience.

So I just ordered a Pixel 7 and I'm considering installing GrapheneOS on it. I know there are always compromises. My experience often is that more privacy meens less usability, e.g. blocking Google assistent removes ability to voice control when using Android auto; or blocking 3rd party scripts with ublock can be tiresome as you always need to unblock for every new page when they brake. Also I've found it almost impossible to find a note keeping app that is comparable to Google Keep.

Question

So my question is if GrapheneOS is for me? I use my phone for browsing the internet, some shopping, streaming (Spotify mostly), chatting (signal mainly and whatsapp), email, banking and taking photos. I also use sleep as android which is of great importance to me.

Will I be able to keep using most apps? I'm mostly worried about bank apps as I've read it can cause problems. I'm located in Sweden if it makes any difference?

In short: What conveniences should I be prepared to sacrifice?

Also, is it easy to revert back to stock OS if I change my mind?

mythodical

128bitpotato GrapheneOS significantly enhances both security and privacy, as demonstrated in the Usage and FAQ documentation. Many banking apps also perform as expected. You can essentially use GrapheneOS like you would any other Android phone.

Like you said, there is a tradeoff of convenience when privacy is a concern. If you use internet-based services, AI-driven assistants, and similar software, it is difficult if not impossible to ensure privacy. GrapheneOS by itself is very respectful of your privacy, but once you start installing additional applications, you can easily compromise yourself. For example, GrapheneOS won't prevent you from installing Facebook or Instagram, or installing Google Photos and using cloud sync, but all of these activities will directly impact your privacy.

If privacy is the goal, I recommend using offline apps whenever possible, denying network permission to apps whenever plausible, and avoiding services and components delivered by companies known to be invasive.

According to the documentation, restoring the stock OS is just as easy as installing GrapheneOS itself, but I haven't done so myself so I can't speak to it.

matchboxbananasynergy

128bitpotato Hey there! Thank you for taking an interest in GrapheneOS.

If you decide to install an alternative OS on your Pixel, GrapheneOS is the way to go if you value security, privacy and usability/compatibility.

Of the apps you've mentioned, you may face some issues with your banking app if that banking app requires you to have a google-approved certified Android OS. There's not much that GrapheneOS can do in the long run to prevent apps from doing that.

The project actually provides documentation for app developers who want to whitelist GrapheneOS while still blocking other non-certified OSes, but the ball is in their court.

As @mythodical said, there is a compatbility list (unofficial and community-maintained) that can provide a non-exhaustive/imperfect list of banking apps that'll work on GrapheneOS. Feel free to take a look:

https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compatibility-with-grapheneos/

katemason

128bitpotato So my question is if GrapheneOS is for me?

Based on what you described - easily. I am aware most banking apps in UK and USA are performing just fine.
Keep in mind that if something does not work as you expected, you can always return your phone to the seller. Return period differs from 7-30 days. Check with your seller. Oh! Don't tell them you have tried Graphene OS, as some can resist to accept the return due to a warranty blah-blah....

[deleted]

mythodical what apps have you found do not need network connection?

128bitpotato

matchboxbananasynergy
mythodical

Thanks for your answers, I managed to find some of the information you linked after my initial post along with some other great reviews that answered a lot of my questions.

I found the main banking apps I use on the compatibility list which seems promising. I'll definitely give GOS a try.

As I understand GOS also makes it smoother to create and use different profiles. Would a good use case be to group different, more privacy invasive apps, together in separate profiles? e.g. Amazon in it's own profile, android auto/waze in it's own profile and maybe some other "necessary" apps in another? Some apps I still have a hard time giving up, but want to minimize tracking as much as possible.

mythodical

[deleted] There are a lot of everyday solutions that either don't require network access, can be self-hosted, or that are at least fully open source so that transparency is provided. The entire suite of Simple Mobile Tools, Signal, Jabber, Syncthing, DAVx⁵, Mastadon, Matrix, K-9 Mail, KeepassDX, Collabora Office, and Infinity for Reddit all fall into this category but there are dozens more. Even many Google apps can be used without Play or network permissions, if you choose to use them, including Gboard, Camera, Photos, and Gallery.

At some point, I plan to post a comprehensive list of the apps I use daily, to help others get an idea of the options that are available once you step away from mainstream providers.

[deleted]

mythodical that would be awesome! Oh wow infinity doesn’t need it? How can it send new refreshed material? And I thought signal would need so it you can get messages! Same with K9 is guess I don’t really understand how the internet works lol

matchboxbananasynergy

[deleted] Those apps need the network permission. Those would fall under the "or that are at least fully open source so that transparency is provided" umbrella.

I'll admit the way they phrased that was a bit confusing.

mythodical

[deleted] Like @matchboxbananasynergy said, some of those apps do require network access to function. I had missed an additional "or" in that statement, but the point remains that there are many free and open source software (FOSS) solutions that exist, which provide much greater transparency than proprietary closed source solutions; and with the exception of social media tools, many can be used offline.

mythodical

matchboxbananasynergy I would totally edit it if I could. I realized I missed the "or" after the first comma after it was too late for edits.

mythodical

128bitpotato As I understand GOS also makes it smoother to create and use different profiles. Would a good use case be to group different, more privacy invasive apps, together in separate profiles?

I don't have use for them yet myself, but yes it is very easy to create additional profiles as needed for further app isolation. I think that what you're proposing is a pretty common workflow among many GOS users.

Amazon in it's own profile, android auto/waze in it's own profile and maybe some other "necessary" apps in another? Some apps I still have a hard time giving up, but want to minimize tracking as much as possible.

If minimizing tracking is a goal, I would avoid network-based location/navigation apps, especially commercial endeavors that are built around advertising and analytics. I would also avoid dedicated shopping apps if a website can suffice instead.

Generally speaking, every additional app you install on your phone increases the attack surface and the potential for loss of privacy. For those seeking privacy, consideration should be given as to whether an app is actually needed or merely a convenience (and whether that convenience is worth it).

128bitpotato

mythodical

mythodical If minimizing tracking is a goal, I would avoid network-based location/navigation apps, especially commercial endeavors that are built around advertising and analytics. I would also avoid dedicated shopping apps if a website can suffice instead.

Yeah, I know. I just haven't found a navigation app comparable to waze or Google maps yet. I use it a lot a and as I live in a city suburb with heavy traffic, having the navigation reroute according to traffic is just too convenient.

Though I do agree with you that I could probably remove a lot of the shopping apps and use the browser instead. I'll probably look in to that when setting up the new phone.

user

128bitpotato Yeah, I know. I just haven't found a navigation app comparable to waze or Google maps yet. I use it a lot a and as I live in a city suburb with heavy traffic, having the navigation reroute according to traffic is just too convenient.

Try Magic Earth

128bitpotato

user

pdagenius

Thanks, going to look in to these. I saw Magic earth recommended elsewhere as well so going to check that out first.

Also saw that android auto doesn't work with GOS (as I understand probably never will because of it integrating too deeply with the OS and Google), so will have to look at different solutions anyway to use the GPS.

pdagenius

My preference is Sygic. You can purchase a subscription outside of Playstore and it has offline maps. Great UI IMHO.