Why People in this forum (and probably grapheneos) don't like 5g?

TopDshe

When I search for 5g results, the majority of post's in this forum have an anti 5g flavour.
Why is that?
I thought 5g has the vest encryption and is probably the best option against sting ray attacks.
Why do people prefer LTE and why does GrapheneOS has an LTE only mode to do damagecontroll ( so I understood from the website where its about LTE where it says the cell network is unsafe in general but if you rely on it you have the option for LTE only [so I understood])

Probably9857

TopDshe

The point of LTE-only mode is not because 5G (or 2G, 3G) are deemed less secure (maybe they are, maybe they aren't), or somehow otherwise "bad". All cellular networks are inherently insecure.

The point is that if you are going to be connected to a cellular network, 4G is widely available and reasonably fast. Enabling the other protocols doesn't provide much additional benefit, but does massively increase the potential attack surface.

DeletedUser64

TopDshe
I downloaded Privacy Cell from f-droid and checked my 5g network.
Turns out it was not a whole 5G network with all the 5G network saftey/security, but an aggregated 4g mishmash.
I don't keep Privacy Cell on my phone it was just for this one time use, but the results shown, told their own story.

Might be worth a one time look at your cell network?

Carlos-Anso

TopDshe why does GrapheneOS has an LTE only mode

LTE only mode was released early 2020. Pixels didnt have 5G till the Pixel 5 launched October that year.

4G networks are far more widely available.

AlanZ

TopDshe
I love it. But it probably has to do with the fact that I live in downtown Chicago and can access mmWave speeds😀
Like 1,500 Mbps or so.

TopDshe

Probably9857 with attack surface you mean stingray?/or are there more categories?

TopDshe

Probably9857 I tried to understand, but I still don't get the difference between LTE and 2g,3g,4g. It seems like 4g is LTE and it's not at the same time. As I sayed, I don't get it

Open_Source_Enjoyer

Probably9857 All cellular networks are inherently insecure.

What do you mean by that? If the traffic is encrypted is there still attack surface?

rclemmer

LTE has been around a while. It is battle tested. 5G provides marginal speed benefits if any to people in rural areas, but it does use more battery than LTE. When 5G is off, it results in longer battery life, usable speeds, and reduced attack surface area.

TopDshe

rclemmer I saw a speed test comparsion, where a friend showed me the speed of his phone with 5g compared to his (pretty fast) WiFi. The wifi connection completely had to eat dust from 5g. It was WAY faster. That experience and the security benefits against sting ray made me want to use 5g. But then I red in this forum and it confused me. So after all, I understand that people don't like 5g because of performance, and not because of security, or maybe a bit security, because there is no 5g only mode.

NetRunner88

5G doesnt work in most of buildings or inside metallic structure like malls or supermarket as soon as walls are a bit thicker than a papersheet

It is not really fast as soon as the area is crowded

LTE (or other name 4G) propagate better. Is stable. Has good coverage.

rellhom

NetRunner88

it almost feels like a trick that cell providers give us more data now and on 5g, when most of us can't even use half of it because the connections are not that fast or reliable

GrapheneOS

NetRunner88 Baseline 5G is simply a modernized protocol resembling 4G. It doesn't have any more difficulty providing coverage everywhere. It can use exactly the same bands. It's not all wider bands, mmWave, etc.

TopDshe

DeletedUser64 that's a good hint thank you

PiNizz-Va-J-J

DeletedUser64

DeletedUser64 Might be worth a one time look at your cell network?

I checked it now and the 5g in my area is fake. Privacy Cell tells me it's "LTE - 4G"
On internet Speed test i get between 5-20Mbps doenload speed and a ping about 29-70ms

This is the normal speed i am used to.
But nothing compared to what i saw in the 5g speed test i saw once.
And it is no real 5g after all as the app privacy cell tell's me. The 5G icon on the status bar seems just like false information to me. I think i'm done with 5G for now. Mabe later. With a big mabe because my country hates technology and internet and progession in general.

freezet

I only see the use case for stadiums and festivals ofc with the provider having enough hardware to cope with massive amounts of people.

TopDshe

Carlos-Anso so it's not about security, it's about durability?

NetRunner88

Most of the time it provide nothing more than regular 4G. Not even better speed ( a false advertising bs from mobile providers)
And 3.5Ghz 5G doesn't propagate well at all behind obstacle.
That why for example in mobile providers came back to the 700MHz band for the 5G+ but the coverage is garbage.
Watch around you and you will find ppl are upset because of the poor performances of 5G both in speed and battery drain, whatever phone brand.

Probably9857

TopDshe with attack surface you mean stingray?/or are there more categories?

I just mean the ability for an attacker to utilize potential vulnerabilities in the cellular communication code to exploit your device.

That kind of attack could be via stingray, or it could be via a compromised cellular network, or in cooperation with authorities.

However, it does not prevent a stingray operator (or the cellular network operator) from eavesdropping on your calls or texts.

Carlos-Anso

TopDshe

As I mentioned, when the feature was released there was no 5G possibility.
We would be interested in having a 5G only option, but would also keep he 4G/LTE only option available.

The development team always has much to do and this is not currently high on the list of priorities as LTE/4G only already provides a reduced attack surface option.

Since GrapheneOS added that feature AOSP introduced the ability to disable 2G networking which provides another option to reduce cellular network attack surface for people who dont want to use LTE only option.

spammerofspam

TopDshe My experience has also been that, at least in some places, 5G is substantially faster than any of the other options. I can often get nearly 500 mbps over 5G, and that is much faster than I recall ever getting on 4G/LTE.

de0u

TopDshe I tried to understand, but I still don't get the difference between LTE and 2g,3g,4g. It seems like 4g is LTE and it's not at the same time.

It can be confusing, in part because the "G" labels can involve politics and/or marketing, but the non-"G" labels can devolve quickly into a zoo of abbreviations and acronyms (E-UTRA, NR, NTN, NB-IoT, LTE-M).

Generally speaking, people mean the same thing by "LTE" and "4G". But for a while AT&T was marketing LTE as "5GE" (source). Depending on one's carrier, a phone may display "4G" or "LTE" (or, for some AT&T users, "5GE").

TopDshe

Probably9857 can you provide a link to a list with the vulnerability's and general weaknisses of the cell network? I thought there is only sting ray and maybe the "silent SMS" thing (but in reality I don't know what that is).

Probably9857

Open_Source_Enjoyer

I'm not even sure that all traffic is encrypted, but to the extent it is, the network operator holds the encryption key, so...

Probably9857

Open_Source_Enjoyer

To be clear, I'm talking about voice calls & SMS. Data communication that uses https or another protocol should be as secure as using that protocol on any other network.