Phasing out 32-bit-only app support for older devices too

missing-root

Afaik GrapheneOS already has some part of virtual machine installed?

com.android.virtualmachine.res

If that doesnt only use KVM but also QEMU, it could totally support running ARM32 apps somehow. But dont know if it would be suited to run single apps at all.

This sounds like a good idea to keep using 32bit apps relatively securely.

GrapheneOS

missing-root The hardware accelerated virtualization support in the OS isn't relevant to running 32-bit ARM code on CPUs no longer supporting it. You need a software emulator for that, and it wouldn't require the OS to provide anything.

IksNorTen

There was an old game I loved to play on Android, It's called "Call of duty zombies", it seems It's 32 bits however last time I tried to play on it (not on GoS but on a different phone) it didn't work.

Do you think It's possible to make these games compatible today ?

GrapheneOS

IksNorTen Current devices don't have 32-bit app support. ARM dropped 32-bit support in 2/3 of the 1st gen ARMv9 Cortex cores and 100% of subsequent cores including the 2nd, 3rd and upcoming 4th gen cores. You'll need software emulation for 32-bit ARM code going forward, i.e. a virtual machine, and hardware acceleration won't be available so the OS won't be providing it and it can be done by a regular app already.

taivlam

I was hesitant to switch from the Pixel 5a to Pixel 6a or newer, but now I have no qualms holding me back. (I still don't want to because Pixel 6a and newer don't have 3.5mm headphone jacks, but that's a hardware trend and not for security-related reasons.)

This was because the original Graph 89 app, a TI graphing calculator app on F-Droid, didn't have any 64-bit builds. (My Pixel Tablet couldn't install this older version, due to this.)

However, a fork was able to publish onto F-Droid in May 2024; and I only discovered this about 2 days ago.

So, now I can confidently move onto Pixel 7a or newer - and I can gloriously emulate the TI 89 calculator on the Pixel Tablet!

headphonejack

Would just like to chime in that arguably the most important app I use is a productivity/input app whose developer is gone. No new updates, but no permissions. I wholeheartedly support the developer and security benefits, but this will unfortunately be a major blow to the usefulness of my device. Will stay on 5a as long as possible.

Is there anyway under the sun to take a closed source .apk and somehow recompile it to run 64bit. Because of its nature as an input method and constant use I doubt emulation will suffice. Is it humanly possible to take machine code and reverse engineer it to reproduce the app in the future?

GrapheneOS

This was likely the last month with Pixel 5a security support. It won't get firmware and driver patches going forward.

Is there anyway under the sun to take a closed source .apk and somehow recompile it to run 64bit. Because of its nature as an input method and constant use I doubt emulation will suffice. Is it humanly possible to take machine code and reverse engineer it to reproduce the app in the future?

It could be emulated in QEMU running Android. It's going to eventually stop working from a hard minimum target API level. 32-bit support was removed at a hardware level in all but a single one of the three first generation ARMv9 Cortex cores (omitted in performance and little cores) and the fourth gen is coming out soon. That's 3 generations with absolutely no 32-bit support and a prior one with it mostly gone.

missing-root

I wonder (I know this is slightly off topic), are IOT devices with ARMv7 a big issue securitywise?

A ton of network infrastructure runs on those.

Is this Android-specific, or generally problematic?

Aeon

missing-root are IOT devices with ARMv7 a big issue securitywise?

many IOT devices dont even implement basic security measures.
most IOT devices have lots of security vulnerabilities and should not be put onto the internet.

so many iot devices get developed but securing those devices is often barely an afterthought.

GrapheneOS

missing-root Nothing about this is Android specific.

tarmac382

GrapheneOS is this still going ahead sometime soon(after A15 port ofc)? or have the banking app compatibility issues with removing 32bit ABI support in the kernel put a hold for now?

GrapheneOS

tarmac382 No, it's on hold because we were unable to remove the 32-bit kernel ABI on pure 64-bit devices, even with no 32-bit support in hardware which is the case for the Pixel 8 and later. There's not much point in moving this forward if we can't do that. We need to convince Google to ban using the 32-bit kernel API via seccomp-bpf for a future target API level. In the meantime, we could make a toggle for it similar to our native debugging toggle but it's a pain and it would have been nice to simply kill all this off for good.

tarmac382

GrapheneOS i see, thanks for the update

« Previous Page