Buying my first phone for GOS - Does any of the recommended list work?

mmmm

Hello all!

In a few months I will be buying a new phone, and I'm thinking it's finally time to plunge into Graphene. I would prefer to buy the phone with my carrier, as they have some pretty good deals on Pixel's at the moment, especially coupled with my loyalty programme.

Will any version of the phone work though? I don't mean the model, I'll probably get a 7 something or other rather, I (think I) read occasionally about the fact a 'locked' phone wont work. What does this mean? I assume its not referring to carrier locked (which mine wouldn't be anyway). Is there a way to find out if it will be locked, or unlock it if it is?

Any help with this little thing would be appreciated, even a link to the correct documentation.. I can't seem to be able to work out the answer.

Cheers,
M

[deleted]

mmmm I (think I) read occasionally about the fact a 'locked' phone wont work. What does this mean? I assume its not referring to carrier locked (which mine wouldn't be anyway)

Most Carriers prevent users from enabling OEM Unlocking unless paid fully on Google Pixels, and Verizon does not allow It in any circumstance.

mmmm Is there a way to find out if it will be locked, or unlock it if it is?

Consider asking your carrier whether they have restricted OEM unlocking on the device you're buying.

[deleted]

mmmm https://grapheneos.org/install/web#prerequisites

"To make sure that the device can be unlocked to install GrapheneOS, avoid carrier variants of the devices. Carrier variants of Pixels use the same stock OS and firmware with a non-zero carrier id flashed onto the persist partition in the factory. The carrier id activates carrier-specific configuration in the stock OS including disabling carrier and bootloader unlocking."

Please give the GrapheneOS website a read through. It's caulk full of important and useful information.

[deleted]

mmmm In all likelihood you're stressing out over nothing, but you can just ask them what SKUs they sell, whether they come with an unlocked bootloader, and whether there's a return policy or not (existing correspondence should make it easier to return too). I have experience with three different Pixels, one from Google's Amazon.de store, one from an unofficial reseller and one from a local carrier, from three from different EU regions, all OEM unlocked.

[deleted]

mmmm
Just a few words of encouragement for you:

there's a good chance carrier phone is going to be fine. I helped others install and they were in exact same predicament (one person got a free phone via loyalty). Just do due diligence and check first.
others point out about not trusting carriers, and while not ideal, privacy is a journey, plus it's a matter of a degree There's so much to learn. If you expect to do everything in the best way possible the entire endeavour may seem daunting and may cause one to just back off entirely. I hear this sentiment often among acquaintances - complete resignation. Meamwhile it's just better to start aomehere and you improve as you go. Perhaps your next phone will be bought with cash. Two sayings come to mind: "perfect is the enemy of good" &
"a journey of a thousand miles starts with a few steps".
any newer Pixel would be fine, but 7a specifically maximizes the value proposition, which includes longest current service life.

Hope this helps. Welcome to a better world, @mmmm!

mmmm

[deleted] Thank you for the info. So it's OEM unlocking I need to ask about? I'm based in France, and generally phones are not carrier locked, but i'm unsure about the bootloader as I'm new to this game.

[deleted]

mmmm So it's OEM unlocking I need to ask about?

Yes

mmmm

[deleted] thanks for the link. I did read that, but I was unsure as to whether it meant avoid carrier locked devices or avoid carriers altogether. It’s normally US centric, and carrier locking over here is generally not done and forbidden in most cases. I’m guessing then that even a carrier device that isn’t carrier locked nor has ever been, has the same limitations?

[deleted]

mmmm I can't speak for all carriers but it's well documented and known that Verizon locks their device's bootloader and so a user won't be able to install GrapheneOS.

mmmm

[deleted] yes I heard that - but the US has not got the same restrictions (if any at all) applied to what carriers can or can’t do , as they do over here. I just wondered really if there was a distinct link between carrier locking and bootloader locking, or whether carriers would randomly lock the bootloader even though they’re unable to lock the phone to their own companies mark.

mmmm

[deleted] ah, ok that’s useful info. Germany has the same policies as france regarding carrier unlocking, so I suspect I would have the same experience as you buying from a local carrier. I will attempt to ask them (not that they’ll be able to answer me, or fully know what I’m asking in all likelihood) - but you have given me hope.

[deleted]

mmmm Germany has the same policies as france regarding carrier unlocking

Wasn't a German carrier.

I will attempt to ask them (not that they’ll be able to answer me

Unlikely (at least that's my experience), but I'd do it just so I had something I can refer too later (hey I asked, you said, I bought, it turned out). In any case, the return policies of your carrier are of essence here.

But I'd wager you'll be fine. I've been lurking in GrapheneOS forum and their Matrix rooms for a good year and I never encountered issues with OEM unlocking EU/UK-sold Pixels.

Blastoidea

I never buy a phone from a carrier.

I do not trust them.

Skip their “deal” and just buy the phone.

mmmm

Blastoidea Perhaps, but as I already use their network and pay them for that, getting a deal on a phone is no biggy for me, I have been doing it for years. They don’t see what I do online, and they don’t snoop on my calls and texts because I’m careful. There is no trust necessary. Buying a hardware that I intend to root is really not a prob for my threat model.

mmmm

[deleted]

Ok then, so help me out please, here is the conversation:

Blastoidea I never buy a phone from a carrier.

I do not trust them.

Skip their “deal” and just buy the phone.

My answer:

mmmm Perhaps, but as I already use their network and pay them for that, getting a deal on a phone is no biggy for me, I have been doing it for years. They don’t see what I do online, and they don’t snoop on my calls and texts because I’m careful. There is no trust necessary. Buying a hardware that I intend to root is really not a prob for my threat model.

Followed by:

mmmm that’s just me using the incorrect nomenclature I’m afraid! I’m new to doing this type of thing hence the potentially stupid questions and incorrect usage of the terms. Thanks for the clarification. All I mean is remove the stock OS (and therefore hopefully any added carrier spyware) and install Graphene.

Now it's in its proper context, what term should I have used?

[deleted]

mmmm This forum and the GrapheneOS website are owned and operated by the official GrapheneOS project team and things like rooting your device goes against their usage policy.

[deleted]

mmmm Buying a hardware that I intend to root is really not a prob for my threat model.

You cannot root your device without unlocking the bootloader anyway, and GrapheneOS is a Private and secure mobile operating system with Android app compatibility; So It will obviously not allow you to root. Also note that you'll not be given any guidance regarding rooting in this forum.

mmmm

[deleted] see the post above. I didn’t mean rooting then! I’m new to it all. Just used the wrong term.

mmmm

[deleted] that’s just me using the incorrect nomenclature I’m afraid! I’m new to doing this type of thing hence the potentially stupid questions and incorrect usage of the terms. Thanks for the clarification. All I mean is remove the stock OS (and therefore hopefully any added carrier spyware) and install Graphene.

[deleted]

mmmm (and therefore hopefully any added carrier spyware)

You may want to familiarize yourself with the definition of spyware.

mmmm

[deleted]

To be honest, I was merely replying to the other person who said they didn't trust buying a handset from a carrier. I was trying to ascertain that it's not something I'm bothered about. I don't really want to get in to an in depth conversation about anything other than my OP.

Thanks for the advice nonetheless. I'm quite well versed in my own threat model and my own risk assessments regarding this field, I just haven't used any mobile OS before other than iOS. I do have a nicely hardened Mac set up for work (I need a particular app thats only available on MacOS or Windows) and I have a Qubes laptop for everything else. GrapheneOS has been of interest to me for rather a few years, and now I feel ready to try to use it as my main mobile OS.

Not knowing the names or the technical terms should not really be a barrier to this, and nor should random rather off topic remarks be considered particular conducive to the conversation.

mmmm

[deleted]

Thank you for your comments @[deleted]! I'm very excited to this next phase of my journey! As I mentioned above I already use Qubes (difficult for me, not being overly technical, but have been making it work for 2 years plus now). I'm massively eager to clean up my mobile life.

I'm not unhappy with iOS security to be honest, and I'm vigilant already with apps and practice various compartmentalisation methods, but still. I'm also very eager to replace my rather difficult to maintain Qubes laptop with perhaps a GrapheneOS Tablet. But one step at a time!

I'll look in to the 7a. I know nothing about Android handsets, avoiding them simply because I don't use or trust Google anything, so this is already a new topic for me.

mmmm

[deleted]

Also, regarding buying a phone in cash, what would this achieve, as I already pay for my service with the carrier? I'm not trying to avoid LE - I simply don't want to be followed around the internet by big tech, I deal with various sensitive contents that must be kept private and secure, plus I'm interested in the whole subject anyway so it's fun - but for me so long as I can minimise any profiling by big tech, avoid my conversations being heard or read by a 3rd party, and make sure my files and affairs are kept private either online or not, then I'm happy.

Is there a reason I'm missing that necessitates buying in cash?

[deleted]

mmmm nor should random rather off topic remarks be considered particular conducive to the conversation.

Someone responding to an incorrect use of the term spyware is not random nor is it off topic. This forum sees a lot of activity on a daily basis. Someone could see the words "carrier spyware" and be easily misled since its use is incorrect/untrue.