worried about 'friend' obsessed on this thing. do not know what to do - if any

mountedenzyme

hello, very sorry if this is not permitted here, however I did not find another place to ask.

so, I have a 'friend' of quite some time, I am their only friend or person they converse with - or was, I think, because they disappear a lot. I have never saw them in real life, however we spoke a lot using message for like, 6 years.

3 years (or so) ago, I perceived they got a bit distant with time, and today we exchange like, 2 messages per month. in this meantime they asked me in order to switch messenger apps quite a few times, i thought excessive of it but did anyway. they deleted all things and texts we had for me too, I did not like it. granted there was a big risk of leakage due to info and I made some mistakes with it, but yea.

and then they started to say stuff like "hey, you should do xyz, should care about privacy, this and that", nothing pushy, just informational, with a few articles to read. I believe what they say now and am taking own measures, however very low compared to theirs.

the point is: although I believe the privacy issues nowadays, I guess they are taking too serious of a problem. they are not 'important' person or target but their 'threat model' seems to be extreme.
to the point of ditching all tech except phone+pc, they told me they bought pixel w graphene os (had to research it), never put sim card on it, they take like days to respond and give excuses like "srry, phone was in another room inside special bag". stuff like that. they are obsessed and stopped things like gaming and youtube, which I do not know why. they say they feel exposed all the time even with internet turned off.

the final reason I am here is bc I am a bit worried. they tell me they do not leave house in months (bc of other things, but idk if its true), they live with their grandma and no one sees them otherwise. they always were very introverted and did not leave home, however I do not know if the reason changed and if they are ok. they say no bc they are tired but I do not know how to respond. family does not like them, never did anyway, so no one to call for checking.

question is: for ppl who have gone through privacy obsession like them, changed everything and did a lot of things to protect themselves: do you think their behavior is normal? should I be worried? does anyone know person who went through similar phase? is there anything I can do?

I suggest psychologist bc they have no one to talk, but they can not pay for it. they also say that psychologists write stuff down and inside pcs, and that it gets saved on cloud with their real name on it, which they do not want. even though they say they want to go if had money.

I just wanted to help. sorry for the wall of text and terrible writing skill, I am just lost. someone pls tell me their experience or thoughts or even if I messed up by asking this. its that its been 3 and a half years already and no improvement. I wanted to game with them but no response anymore.

N1b

mountedenzyme you must be a very nice person to care so much for a friend you never met. Please never stop being this kind. :)

I don't see much you can do for your friend if they decided to live such an isolated life. It sure sounds extreme, but how could we judge if we don't really know them. They could be the next Edward Snowden and totally justified in their actions for what it's worth.

I suggest first and foremost you look after yourself. You can only help people if you remain strong and don't become desperate from worrying so much. What you can do is ask questions, show interest in your friend, try to learn more about what they do and why. Ask them to explain their threat model to you (on the messenger they feel safe about it), ask them to train you to become better at privacy and whenever they open up, ask about why they are doing it and what they think they have to give up. Also make sure you set your own limits of what you are willing to do and explain them. Make your own threat model so you know your limits.

If your friend comes to the conclusion that they are overreaching and harming themselves in the process, they will want to change and be grateful for your help. If they keep feeling okay with their sacrifices and actions, you will have to accept that (and maybe you will even understand it if they can explain it well).

In the end they are responsible for themselves and you won't decide for them what is a healthy amount of security, privacy and anonymity. Everyone is different in this regard.

If this is too much for you or you are suffering from all the barriers your friend puts between you, the alternative is of course to end the friendship or let it end by itself (sounds like all you have to do is go down to one message per month and then stop entirely if there is nothing important left to say). Again: Protect yourself first and then help from a position of strength if people let you.

I hope this helps you. Please remain being a nice person, especially towards yourself.

dgzeij

mountedenzyme Just imagine what they have gone through to not want that written down. Or even to be spoken about. Them going down the privacy hole has nothing to do with privacy, but all with that life experience, and all the reasons not to talk about it. It's just a dance around the problem and try whack-a-mole all the doors shut to keep it contained.

When it happened so many years ago, and when they just continue to regress, there isn't that much you personally can do for them. If you want to help you should try involve someone with experience in this and you think they might accept (and maybe even trust).

For your own sake you need to regularly ask yourself if the situation is making you miserable. If you still have an emotional buffer to dig thought it. When that buffer is gone is when you need to take hard choices. Couse only you are looking out for yourself, even if it seems like others also do.

de0u

mountedenzyme they also say that psychologists write stuff down and inside pcs, and that it gets saved on cloud with their real name on it, which they do not want.

That has happened: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/26/tens-of-thousands-psychotherapy-records-hacked-in-finland

However, not all psychologists use cloud storage. If you can acknowledge the validity of your friend's concern, it may help in discussing ways to work around it.

[deleted]

See, you should have a threat model instead of going extreme. The best threat model is which is well thought and has a low chance of human-error

mountedenzyme

[deleted] yes, their threat model is defined, they explained it. however it is very extreme disproportionally. mine is lower

[deleted]

Everyone has a right to privacy. At two texts a month I believe you can't know anybody reasonably well and what drives their behaviour even if they attempt to explain it to you. Have a think if such person is really important for you to stay in touch with, don't judge them based on your experience and the scarce interaction you have. Perhaps it's intentional.

mountedenzyme

[deleted] true. however I do know them fairly well, 6 years and used to have daily calls. they dropped to twice a month after developing obsession w privacy, which is unusual for them and seems they are not happy with it, and is why I posted it. I also do not judge, I respect them, I am just thinking 'what if these are signs of idk, something bigger which should be adressed sooner than later', bc no one else cares about them. but it is ok, I will rethink this. thanks. they say they want to talk more but are afraid of doing so.

mountedenzyme

N1b very thanks for the thorough response, I will try a response despite limited english skills.

despite only talking through calls and message I think I know them fairly well. we had very long messages and I guess if they were the next snowden they maybe would dropped few hints, even if unintentional. but idk, of course. who knows.

I am taking care of myself, thanks, you are correct. I agree to see desperate but I am not that much, just thinking more lately bc I seen something that sparked 'what if these are signs of idk, something bigger which should be adressed sooner than later' bc no one else sees them so I do not want to miss a chance of preventing something, whatever it could be.

I ask questions, they said they want to talk more but are afraid, like something is blocking it. so they end up not responding bc of it even though they want. they say they do not want to be seen by anyone bc it makes them uncomfortbale. the thing is that they know their practices are harming their life but keep doing any way. talk about wanting to disappear, or even not wake up, even that. reseting pc 20 times and such, which I do not think people do as much.

I am willing to talk to them as long as they want, it is just that I am not educated enough. I have told my boundaries too. thanks again and keep nice too

mountedenzyme

dgzeij sorry just to be sure, if possible, can you explan what you mean? (by 'when it hapenned', 'it' what?) you think there something going on, like what? I am not educated enough. sorry language barrier

they used to write all thing sensitive down when we message, me too, but it began to stop after privacy obsession. which is unusual for them, I see. this year they told me they had to stop bc of messenger app, which spies and they hesitate even to send letters even though they want bc they scared of hand writing stuff, which never hapenned before. they say feel something blocks them of everything, even going out or organize ther stuff. which made them disfunction now. grandma helps them with food but she is very old.

I am not rich therefore will not be able to pay help for them, they can not as well, do not even want money sent bc of fear of internet. feel like I lost their personality tbh, which is sad bc I genuinely liked them. I am not miserable, just thinking if I am missing any chance of prevention of whatever could be hapenning. I will rethink this, thanks for thorough response.

mountedenzyme

de0u that is scary, I knew it could hapen but did not know it actually did. friend says they are afraid psychologist could misunderstand their privacy concern and think things that are not true, however I do not know if it would hapen or if it actually is true what they could think. problem is that they say they can not leave home and psychologist online is unfeasible, imagine doing that over zoom or whats app. nightmare for them

thanks any way, I will see if I can do anything

mountedenzyme

by the way, I read the deleted response before, criticizing my use of 'them'. it was intentional to respect the friend's privacy and also I do not want them to find this and be so sure it is me.
and we spoke for 6 years already, we had daily calls and stuff, so I know them fairly well. this behavior is a bit unusual for them and never hapenned before.

thanks for the answers everyone, will respond soon. although I do not think critical responses should be deleted unless they are not respectful. i would like to see others if available

[deleted]

mountedenzyme believe me when I say I am not the only one who people look at in a funny way since I kind of developed my obsession with privacy trying to explain myself to them. Whoever it is that is your friend, if they value their relationship with you, they will find a way how to stay in touch and won't put too much pressure on you in order to so. All else is dust and air.

mountedenzyme

[deleted] do people think you are 'crazy'? how to understand diference? I would like to understand what people say of you/others however it is not obligated, it is ok if not comfortable. and that is true, I will give them some more time, see what hapens. thanks

de0u

mountedenzyme I am not miserable, just thinking if I am missing any chance of prevention of whatever could be hapenning. I will rethink this, thanks for thorough response.

Something not everybody knows is that Person A can speak with a professional counselor to discuss concerns about how Person B is doing. This is generally only for a small number of discussions, but it can result in useful advice.

dgzeij

mountedenzyme Most cases like this have root causes from childhood trauma. Can be anything from when memories start form at around 4-5 to 13-15. Usually when trauma happens after late puberty they have developed coping skills to be able to digest the trauma when it happens, and they usually already are good at talking about feelings.

Alternatively you have regular adult PTSD from something happening while adult, but that doesn't fit the story you wrote in the OP.

So if anything serious enough happen too early and no adults are catching it and guilding them through it, they will just look at it as that's just how the world is and works, and the fault is probably theirs for it to happen. That's typical children behavior. They always defend their grownups.

But if a trauma is big enough it will stay with them for the rest of their life until they deal with it. Until then it will torment them in various ways, and cause them to behave bizarrely in so many different ways. The visible behavior is a mix of memories surfacing and them trying to find ANY way to dig it down. The older they get, the more elaborate routines and methods they develop. For other people when looking from outside it looks like they are busy with something specific, and maybe even something important. But if you start peek into what is actually happening, and unpack what is being done, you'll see there is no apparent meaning behind. Just layers and layers of meaningless behavior.

Until you let them become comfortable and start give hints about what is actually going on. The hints are not easy to spot. That's why I suggest find someone with experience in this. Doesn't have to be a paid professional. Just need to be someone who understand this, and can get your friend to start give more hints. Bit by bit. It's a ball that has to sloooowly start rolling, and keep rolling for a long time.

There's a rather large % of the population that is struggling with things like this. If you walk into a room filled with people you'll find at least one, if not multiple in a similar, yet different, situation. Then you have all the others who never went into that room. It's so common it should be taught in highschool at the latest. The most visible behavior on the surface look different in all the cases, but if looking past the first layers, they all start look the same. 8 billion people on the planet, and we still behave the same way underneath, with minor cultural differences.

Subliminal

Only the paranoid survive

mountedenzyme

dgzeij very interesting and informative, thank you. it is just weird bc previously they were kind of the opposite, very open, accounts everywhere, name and everything. and then the 180 turn. almost either all or nothing turn. but the brain really is interesting and complicated. kind of weird also bc now this is their whole life, nothing else interests them not even gaming which we used to.

thing is they have only me and grandma who thinks they are paranoid and 'crazy', and I am not educated or experienced. I only have so much power, it is not possible to make someone else like them. especially when they closed themselves so much

thanks again, there is a lot of people in the world.

dgzeij

mountedenzyme You can also keep in mind that whatever has circulated in their mind for so many years can have occupied the thoughts to such a degree that they become drawn to doing it themselves. Not all do, but it's common enough. And maybe that's why the need for extreme secrecy with fear of reprecussion on top of all the memories.

At a point they need to take the decision to continue the current path (into destruction) or try find a solution. Most cases need someone else to push them (gently). Get the ball rolling.