Uninformed rambling and questions about GOS future

[deleted]

I'm a noob in all things FOSS/privacy. Sorry if this is not the most appropriate way/place to post this.

I switched to GOS around 2 months ago. I took the risk of buying a Pixel for more than it's worth and with no warranty (Pixels are not officially available here) because I was sure this OS would be right for me, and it was.

I'm not very informed about the apparent drama around the OS/community, but after knowing about Daniel's leave I started wondering about the future. I don't know how this will realistically affect the project, so I wanted to ask those who know it best.

GOS has become the only mobile operating system I'll ever comfortably use. As far as I'm aware, there is no equal alternative (not noob friendly, at least) and I don't want to go back to Apple or stock Android filled with bloatware and FB/Google everywhere by default. The values and properties of minimalism, security, privacy and control are why GOS Is almost perfect to me. Because of this and the risk I took with the Pixel, I want to have a reasonable amount of certainty about the future.

I think GOS Is an extremely important project, and lots of people depend on it. I think it should have more (positive) attention than what it seems to have now. I don't want to see its core principles change too much and I'm pretty sure most people don't either. I know money is necessary but it's not the only thing, right?

I know it's impossible to predict the future and I'm not expecting unrealistic answers. So, my questions are:

1. How can we make sure that the project is going on strong, no matter which changes are made?

2. Aside from donations and things related to code, are there any other ways "normal" people can help?

3. As said on the FAQ: "In the long term, the project will need to move into the hardware space." What exactly does that mean? Is there any confirmed information about this? Is a whole new phone planned and if yes, would PIxels still be supported?

4. Is it safe for me to assume I won't have to worry about this in at least the next 5 years? I don't read code yet. I'm trusting the developers and those who know better. A whole OS is not a joke, so I hope no issues and unnecessary drama arise. I still have to sell my iPhone and I don't want to regret it.

5. Can we expect more details about the changes that will take place? I would like to know more about what is going on, maybe I'm missing a better place for information? Please let me know.

I want to thank everyone who is/was involved with the project. As for Daniel, thanks a lot too and I hope he gets the peace and time he needs. This work is great and deserves more recognition. We all know the future of privacy tends to be dark, there is no room for big losses. This project is unique and means a lot to me and lots of other people. I'm not in a financial position to donate, but definitely will if things ever get better. Thank you and please don't ever give up, tell us what you need so we can keep this up for years to come!

Kottonballs

[deleted] The GOS devs, admins, moderators, etc, etc all believe in the goal of GOS being a privacy focused OS. Nobody knows the future but, from what I can tell, the focus remains the same as does it's user base.

And agreeing with CSIS01, your alternatives are much worse. :)

csis01

I can't say much about the GOS management, but what I'm seeing is that you are looking at THREE things with respect to phones and privacy;

1) GOS,
2) "factory" OS,
3) the fruit company.

(3) is probably the worst thing going when it comes to privacy and knowing what its doing. (2) is not an awful lot better since its infected with a heap of bloatware that has the singular purpose of collecting your private data. (1) is obviously the most secure option available.

But at the same time, (1) is really REALLY over the top secure. And while that is a really really good thing, there is an ocean of difference between (1) and (2) in terms of security and privacy. There are already TONS of options sitting in between (1) and (2) Most of these options are closer to (1) than they are to (2) when you do NOT install gservices on them, and closer to (2) than they are to (1) when you DO install gservices.

So if GOS did suddenly go away entirely, you still have a lot of flexibility to maintain a "very" secure and private setup. Certainly better than factory of fuity.

[deleted]

csis01

You're right, there are other options available. I think of CalyxOS, DivestOS and even LineageOS, but maybe you're also talking about modifications and other ways of achieving better security and privacy than options 2 and 3. The thing is, while it's great to have these options too, I have the (possibly wrong) impression that they're not as straightforward and noob friendly as GOS. Also, most of the devices they support aren't officially available here or are more overpriced than what I paid for the Pixel (and a bit old), which makes it not that worth it for what I want. I don't have the time and skills to search for unofficial builds and other stuff, so things are a bit limited to me for the time being.

Perhaps the fruit company has "spoiled" me. I see that one of the reasons I'm attracted to GOS is because they also restrict their development to a few devices from one brand, which you know who else does. Maybe I need to be more open. But GOS is so clean and ideal to me that it feels hard to think about switching again in case things go wrong in the future, lol. Not that I think other projects aren't able to reach this level, I just have the annoying tendency to think in either all or nothing and GOS kind of provides that relief as a bonus (not to mention the people who truly need all its security).

Anyway, thanks for the reply, I liked the way you put it. If there's anything I'm missing (such as other alternatives or tricks), please let me know. I still have a lot to learn, especially after using fruity devices for pretty much my whole life.

csis01

[deleted] You're right, there are other options available. I think of CalyxOS, DivestOS and even LineageOS, but maybe you're also talking about modifications and other ways of achieving better security and privacy than options 2 and 3. The thing is, while it's great to have these options too, I have the (possibly wrong) impression that they're not as straightforward and noob friendly as GOS. Also, most of the devices they support aren't officially available here or are more overpriced than what I paid for the Pixel (and a bit old), which makes it not that worth it for what I want. I don't have the time and skills to search for unofficial builds and other stuff, so things are a bit limited to me for the time being.

While I prefer not to go into naming of "competitors" directly while here, you have named a few options that certainly fit within that gap I mentioned. And as far as I can tell, they ALL support current Pixels, which makes sense since Pixels are the only devices supported directly by upstream AOSP. It basically means that by definition, ANY derivative of AOSP will support current pixels, unless that support is somehow broken either intentionally or accidentally. And note that they do actually publish builds and provide installation instructions for Pixels.

I'm not sure in what way they wouldn't be as "noob friendly". They're all pretty much install, then boot, then off to the races.

[deleted]

csis01

Yeah, they seem to do. Honestly pretty much the only reason I got a Pixel was for GOS, if I were to switch I'd probably prefer something else. And by noob friendly maybe they are indeed, it could be just personal preference at this point. I heard some of these deliver updates too late, but have yet to confirm if this would be that significant to me.

matchboxbananasynergy

Hi there. Let me try to address your questions one-by-one:

How can we make sure that the project is going on strong, no matter which changes are made?

The project started in 2014 and is still going on today. It has been through various hardships in that time, and nothing's managed to kill yet. I don't expect that to change. By changes, I assume you're referring to Daniel's decision to step down from his project leader position. As a community moderator, I know the rest of the team and I can tell you without a doubt in my heart that they all share Daniel's passion about the project; we're (me included, since I'm not a developer myself) in very good and capable hands.

Aside from donations and things related to code, are there any other ways "normal" people can help?

Positive contributions within our community, answering people's questions, even reporting spam on the forum when you happen to stumble across it before we've gotten to it. Little things like that which lessen the load of the team go a very long way, and I am personally indebted to everyone who takes their time to provide informative and respectful answers here or elsewhere. As a newcomer, you may not yet feel comfortable to take on that role as a community member, which is where I hope established members of our community will be able to keep providing help where it's needed (including to you) until you're in a position to do so yourself.

As said on the FAQ: "In the long term, the project will need to move into the hardware space." What exactly does that mean? Is there any confirmed information about this? Is a whole new phone planned and if yes, would PIxels still be supported?

The roadmap on our FAQ page outlines long-term plans. Us having our own devices which we control from the top-down is a far future goal which will allow us to provide a lot more than we currently do. Something that's slightly less far away would be an OEM partnering with us to provide a device according to our specifications which would allow us to provide an alternative to Pixel devices for those that want that option.

Is it safe for me to assume I won't have to worry about this in at least the next 5 years? I don't read code yet. I'm trusting the developers and those who know better. A whole OS is not a joke, so I hope no issues and unnecessary drama arise. I still have to sell my iPhone and I don't want to regret it.

As mentioned above, the project is well established and has been around for ages now. I would say it is indeed quite safe that you won't have to worry about it any time soon. Our team is very good at what they do, have already been doing it for a long time and will continue doing it. Besides, if you ever change your mind, flashing another OS is a piece of cake!

Can we expect more details about the changes that will take place? I would like to know more about what is going on, maybe I'm missing a better place for information? Please let me know.

Yes. Daniel is stepping down as lead developer and GrapheneOS Foundation director, as I'm sure you've seen from our announcement. More announcements of that nature will follow and we will be keeping our users and community up to speed on everything along the way.

I hope that addresses all of your questions/concerns. If there's anything I may have accidentally skipped or missed, feel free to let me know!

[deleted]

matchboxbananasynergy

As a community moderator, I know the rest of the team and I can tell you without a doubt in my heart that they all share Daniel's passion about the project; we're (me included, since I'm not a developer myself) in very good and capable hands.

This is great. Just out of curiosity, do people in the team usually leave/enter or is the team more on the stable side? I probably could find out myself, but yeah.

Little things like that which lessen the load of the team go a very long way

Good to know. Although I'm more of an observer, I'll try to help too once my knowledge and experience gets more solid. This would be a very small price to pay for such an awesome OS.

Something that's slightly less far away would be an OEM partnering with us to provide a device according to our specifications which would allow us to provide an alternative to Pixel devices for those that want that option.

So, just to make sure: if an alternative device ever gets released, whether from an OEM or even from GOS, would Pixels still be supported as long as they meet the security standards? I know we can't be 100% sure of anything, but I'd like to be fairly aware because other devices are even harder and more expensive to buy here. Sorry if it was clear already, I may have misunderstood due to English. I also ask this because of the irony of buying a Google device to get rid of Google.

I hope that addresses all of your questions/concerns. If there's anything I may have accidentally skipped or missed, feel free to let me know!

You did address all of them, I am more sure of things now. WIll be getting rid of my previous phone and hopefully never look back! Thanks a lot for the thorough answer, keep up the great work,

matchboxbananasynergy

[deleted] This is great. Just out of curiosity, do people in the team usually leave/enter or is the team more on the stable side? I probably could find out myself, but yeah.

We have members that have been with the project for multiple years. We have others who are newer to the project, or work on the OS part-time. We're looking to expand the team, so I expect for the project to eventually have even more developers on board. Of course there are also contributors who are not necessarily part of the team, but who have contributed features in the past.

[deleted] So, just to make sure: if an alternative device ever gets released, whether from an OEM or even from GOS, would Pixels still be supported as long as they meet the security standards? I know we can't be 100% sure of anything, but I'd like to be fairly aware because other devices are even harder and more expensive to buy here. Sorry if it was clear already, I may have misunderstood due to English. I also ask this because of the irony of buying a Google device to get rid of Google.

I'm willing to say that as long as Google Pixels meet the project's security requirements, they will keep being supported. Even if that were to change (which is astronomically unlikely and would require some very specific reasoning as to why), existing Pixel devices will still be supported for their entire lifetime. You won't ever have to worry about a device being "dropped" before its end of life date.

Glad I could help! Anything else you need, don't hesitate to reach out.

[deleted]

matchboxbananasynergy

Okay! Just another thing, is this forum the most appropriate place if I want to discuss other (non-technical) aspects of GOS and/or other privacy subjects? For instance, talk about random things like psychological relations to the concepts and those who value them (which would be very off-topic and sometimes not related to GOS at all)? I would use reddit for that, but it seems that it shouldn't be used anymore. I'm a bit too old when it comes to dealing with this stuff on the internet.

Panda-na

I have not done any recent research in the alternative OS world, but it used to be such that alternative OSes would never support banking apps. And there was always a hassle with root/not root, multi-page instructions on how to install a build on a particular device etc.
I was on board with GrapheneOS the second I read that it supports banking apps. And it has worked flawlessly for me. Installed it 3 months ago, and I will never look back :)

[deleted]

Panda-na

Yeah, this is one of the reasons why I said I found GOS more noob friendly. It's just more streamlined, things are clear enough and you don't have to look for much elsewhere. I haven't installed banking apps yet, but it's nice to know it worked for you. Mine haven't been tested in that webpage so I'll try my luck later. Thanks for the reply!

matchboxbananasynergy

[deleted] We try to be lax about things to the extent that we can. That is why we have an off-topic tag, after all. Here's an example of a thread people are currently contributing to:

https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/5051-best-driving-songs

That said, we would intervene if it was something (especially off-topic) that got heated. Things including (but not limited to) politics, religion and other such things are best avoided, because they have a way of getting out of hand quite quickly. I hope that answers your question!