Wiping phone before international travel

Norman

Johnnyloans This thread is about international travel and wiping your phone for it, in which case having nothing important or controversial on your phone is more important than using GrapheneOS' security and privacy features for the large majority of people. After all, even the best security and privacy features don't mean much if you're just an average person that doesn't want to be barred from entering the country or forced to give up your pin. We have to be realistic about that.

I specifically agreed with the part about GrapheneOS users just being average people, and not necessarily a criminal, or an activist or someone else who would strongly depend on GrapheneOS in these sorts of situations.

I think implying that every GOS user has to strictly and strongheadedly make use of all of the GOS features at an international border is vastly more damaging than the alternatives presented.

AloofChocolate

aw22 If you travel frequently and worry about border situations, the cheap phone is worth the money. It's simpler, less stressful, and there's no data loss to deal with. Only downside is managing two devices. My updated take: if seizure's/search is part of your 'threat model', the cheap phone becomes even more strongly recommended. The cost difference isn't just about price — it's about acceptable loss, psychological toll, recovery complexity. If the cheap phone is held/seizure, you have minimal disruption. If your main phone is held, you're stranded.

erikfritzek

AloofChocolate If the cheap phone is held/seizure

Are you suggesting to take only this mini-phone for the trips?

AloofChocolate

Any cheap phone that you are willing to part with, due to the threat model. Cloning in itself is problematic.

erikfritzek

AloofChocolate that was not the question. Are you suggesting to bring both phones while traveling, or just the dumb one?

AloofChocolate

When a user uses their phone like a desktop, they're dragging a heap of information around — that's gold in itself. Leave it behind and take the cheap mobile.

Zoanoid

BTW, one more lawyer's view on Samuel Tunick's case: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2rokxux5cU
I like one of the top comment there: "_They’re basically trying to establish precedent to violate people’s privacy_". -I agree!

Just one more interesting precedent case from Russia:

In December 2020, Roman Kasenkov was detained in possession of narcotic substances. During a personal search, the police seized his mobile phone. Roman Kasenkov refused to voluntarily provide the police with the password to his smartphone; as a result, experts were unable to access the data stored on the device.

The courts of first instance, appeal, and cassation treated this refusal as evidence confirming his guilt: they assumed that the phone’s memory might contain proof of his involvement in drug trafficking. As a result, the man was convicted of attempted drug trafficking and sentenced to 10 years in a maximum‑security penal colony.

In Sep 2023 Supreme Court of Russia disagreed with the conclusions of the lower courts. The Supreme Court emphasised the following:

Everyone has the right to protect their rights and freedoms by any means not prohibited by law (Part 2 of Article 45 of the Constitution of the Russian Federation).

No one is obliged to testify against themselves (Article 51 of the Constitution of the Russian Federation).

Under the presumption of innocence, the accused is not required to prove their innocence the burden of proof lies with the prosecution.

A refusal to provide a password must not be interpreted to the detriment of the person or regarded even as indirect evidence of guilt.

The lower courts’ conclusion about possible involvement, based solely on the fact that access to the phone was not obtained, is a mere assumption unsupported by evidence.

As a result, the Supreme Court found that the norms of the Constitution and the Criminal Procedure Code of the Russian Federation had been violated. It amended the verdict: the actions were reclassified under illegal acquisition and possession of narcotics on a large scale, and the sentence was reduced to 3 years and 3 months in a general‑regime penal colony.

But of course a criminal investigation and a border control are different things. If you’re entering a foreign country and refuse to provide the password at the control, they may not let you in simply as a way to punish you by other means.

erikfritzek

Zoanoid Just one more interesting precedent case from Russia

Quoting Russia as an "interesting precedent" is like quoting North Korea and pretending something unusual has happened

Carrousel7956

AloofChocolate When a user uses their phone like a desktop, they're dragging a heap of information around — that's gold in itself. Leave it behind and take the cheap mobile.

Only if you're disclosing the data and that's not a broadly true statement. Plenty of people have more data on their phones or more on their desktop. Phones are better at protecting your data than desktops.

Iceschillendrig

I would buy another phone, maybe a cheaper Pixel like the Pixel 8 or something and keep the bare minimum that you need on it and leave your main phone locked away somewhere safe at home. Sounds like a pain if you travel often but this is really the safest and easiest way.

thmf

Iceschillendrig I was thinking about the same thing.

What about an option to have this temporary say Pixel 8 with you and to have your main phone off (BFU) in the luggage along with the rest of your clothes? Does anybody know about any precedent where for example US border officers brought your actual checked suitcases out of luggage, opened them and asked to turn on your main phone and unlock it?

Iceschillendrig

thmf It is possible for them to ask you to open your luggage so they can search it. I've had a border police officer question me about my luggage before but thankfully, he didn't search it. If they find another device in your luggage then they are likely to ask you to turn it on and unlock it. Leaving it at home is the best option.

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