Interview With the Man Charged for Wiping His GrapheneOS Phone - 404Media

r134a

Carrousel7956 I wonder is there's a camera app people can use on the lockscreen when recording which uploads the files automatically so you can access them for evidence without unlocking your phone if it was seized or whatnot.

Any camera app will do in combination with Nextcloud auto upload, even when the device remains locked. I'm using this 'setup' for potentional similar reasons, aswell as for backup reasons. Nextcloud is configured to auto upload the Camera folder, aswell as voice recording folder to my homeserver.

I just tested this again. Took a picture on the lockscreen without unlocking. Booted my laptop and checked in Nextcloud. The picture was on my hard drive on my server '3 min' ago, roughly the time it took to grab my laptop & boot it.

r134a

r134a I just want to add that the phone probably should be AFU before this works, should be logical, but want to add it anyway for completeness.

Norman

r134a it would be much more secure to have a separate device that does not contain any personal or critical data that can be used to record instead. This way you can get your phone into BFU state but still record evidence while your phone is safe.
I would say that this is a way more secure way of going about this than keeping your phone into AFU state.

Aeleon

If the guy had a slip of paper in his phone case with the duress pin on it, with the corner of the paper sticking out to be noticeable, and the pin was labelled 'unlock pin'.. if the arresting agent noticed that and typed in the pin without asking the suspect first, would that change the situation from a legal perspective when the phone is wiped?

FunkTastic

Aeleon I'm wondering if planning that outcome beforehand may be considered a crime.

Norman

The problem with most 'solutions' that people suggest is that it assumes the phone is in AFU phase, at which point it's much more exploitable by digital forensic tools than in BFU phase.
In fact, the entire reason the auto-reboot functionality exists is to get the phone into BFU phase after it is seized or otherwise 'taken' by someone without the user having the opportunity to shut down or restart the device, and before it can be sent to (or during it being sent to) a person or organization that has access to digital forensics tooling.

People tend to put a high amount of emphasis on tooling to either 'trick' or 'deceive', or otherwise data gathering during investigations. See the amount of recent posts about 'decoy profile(s)' and all sorts of alternative duress features.

The problem with all of these features is that the phone needs to be in AFU state for them to be possible. It simply is not possible to implement a 'second/decoy Owner' profile that is completely separate in BFU state from the primary Owner profile.

The main takeaway from all of this is that getting your phone into BFU state is critical in these sorts of scenarios, rather than focusing on some sort of trickery or distraction which requires the phone to be in AFU state because any sort of decent competency by the other side would completely nullify any advantage here. In fact, any competency would mean a significantly less secure device by default, which is what GOS is obviously fighting against.

r134a

Norman Alternatively, one could set auto-reboot timer at 10 minutes.

Norman

I want to add that what I'm saying is not to be taken as any sort or form of advice. I am not a lawyer or an expert on digital security or forensics. I'm simply informed of what other experts have said or would likely do in this scenario. Neither am I saying you should not comply with your local authorities.
Do whatever you, yourself, require in order to keep your personal information safe. You decide your boundaries and threat index and what you are willing to share and with whom.

I'm simply suggesting that keeping your phone in a BFU state is more secure than some sort of AFU state trickery or recording.

FunkTastic

r134a Why not just turn all defices off?

r134a

FunkTastic I don't know, why not? Everybody should do with their device whatever they think is best for the current situation at hand.

Carrousel7956

FunkTastic this situation was for using camera and uploading.

starglider

I honestly don't understand this situational overengineering. A Pixel running GOS in BFU is ludicrously secure. Set a long password, and it doesn't even matter if a secure element exploit gets dug up some day (but honestly, unless you pissed off the NSA you can rely on the Titan, and probably even then). Just turn off the phone when going through immigration (best option) or set the reboot timer to something like an hour. Turn on two-factor unlock or trigger the "lockdown" power option to disable biometrics if you don't want to proactively shut down.

The USB port is already disabled when the phone is screen-locked, which almost certainly buys enough time for the reboot timer to fire.

Politely refuse to consent to a search or provide the PIN/password. They'll take your phone. You'll be out $1k. That's it. You'll spend $1k in the first hour of legal fees if you try to "trick" federal law enforcement.

Duress PIN is a very cool James-Bond-ish feature but it's really not for LEO situations. I think it's applicability is honestly quite narrow. Like, some thugs mug me on the street and demand my phone so they can use it to get my wife's location and threaten to start cutting off fingers if I don't comply. Yeah, giving them the duress PIN might piss them off and make things worse for me, but it takes the option to eventually crack off the table. I have one set because why not—I like having the option there. But you really don't need it for 99% of situations.

I feel for the guy here because he doesn't seem like a bad person and is pretty clearly being targeted by a vindictive administration. But what he did was very foolish. Tools like GOS give you enough rope to hang yourself because they respect the user (call recording and duress PIN especially). If you're going to install this OS, you need to use it thoughtfully, and if you're not willing to think through how to use it that way, buy an iphone.

FunkTastic

starglider buy an iphone

iPhones have poor operational security or create too much friction for regular use.