Tor browser VS vanadium..

Hodlmol

Been wondering if tor browser has any benefits then using vanadium with regards on privacy/security/anonymity? I geuss the fingerprinting is the big win but are there also downsides? Not talking about slow or not works on some sites pure privacy/security/anonymity

Novaliss

Hodlmol I've used Torbrowser in the past, but now more often Vanadium started from a Private space and enabling TorVpn. A possible downside could be that not many users do this.

Hodlmol

Anybody with knowledge?

userofgos

Hodlmol Please use the search function before posting new threads. There are over 20+ threads about TOR on the first page when you search the forum.

Here's one where the GrapheneOS project account comments: https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/14146-is-tor-browser-more-save-on-graphene-than-on-stock-android/2

Apps are harder to exploit on GrapheneOS, but the Tor Browser and Firefox are a rare special case not benefiting from most of the GrapheneOS exploit protection features. They're the least protected against exploitation of all mainstream browsers, especially on mobile where Firefox does not implement a sandbox at all. The Tor network itself may or may not be a good option for you depending on what you need and your threat model. Bear in mind that it can be seen you're using Tor on the local network and ISP. Exit nodes often mess with the traffic leaving them. A lot of malicious Tor nodes have been discovered but in general there's no way to know if nodes are participating in mass surveillance, logging traffic, etc. Anyone can make Tor nodes and join the network.

https://nusenu.medium.com/is-kax17-performing-de-anonymization-attacks-against-tor-users-42e566defce8

mar2112

Just curious if you searched this forum and the GOS FAQ before asking. I have no specific knowledge but I do recall reading about this topic somewhere.

gristle-cause

It's a tradeoff. Depends on your threat model & individual activities. I use both

Vanadium is damn close to the most secure browser you will ever use. It offers insanely robust protections against common threat vectors you may find on the web

Vanadium does not offer anonymity. It does not pretend to. The GOS devs have spoken elsewhere about their philosophy - most antifingerprint browser measures are, in their opinion, just theatrics, and they prioritize security. Very few people use Vanadium - your fingerprint is fairly unique

Tor browser is gecko-based - less secure than chromium, and less secure than Vanadium by a wide margin. But it does indeed offer anonymity, and privacy to an extent, in exchange

Vanadium will protect you, Tor will hide you. I use Vanadium as my default - in most situations, I prefer security. I use Tor for situations where I specifically want anonymity - forced to access a resource for hosted on Google, for example

gristle-cause

Novaliss Vanadium started from a Private space and enabling TorVpn

Dont do this. It defeats the point of Tor. Youre breaking anonymity & making your fingerprint unbelievably unique

For web browsing, use Tor Browser for anonymity, or Vanadium over a not-Tor network for normal browsing

Reply if you want me to elaborate, too tired rn to do a whole blurb

Novaliss

gristle-cause yes, I'm aware of the unique profile, but isn't this one part of the thing, albeit an important one? I could be wrong about this.

I don't have a personal need for doing this often, just some experiments. I wish I could test beyond those fingerprint testing sites, which typically says like 'no match' when revisiting them.

gristle-cause

Novaliss there are 2 Tor technologies

Tor Network/Onion Routing: uses three Tor nodes to (1) present a random Tor IP to your webserver, (2) prevent any one party from seeing both the source and endpoint webserver, (3) encrypt all web traffic
Tor Browser: grants anonymous web browsing. Uses Tor Network + a sterilized version of Firefox to make all users appear identical

TorVPN only provides the former, IP obscurity via Tor Network + encrypted web traffic

Vanadium has an incredibly unique fingerprint - it does not, relatively, have many users. By being the singular Vanadium user with a Tor IP (these are publicly known), you make it trivial to track you across sessions, effectively neutralizing benefit (1)

The incremental value of (2) is debatable, depending on your threat model. For most activity & threat models, a trusted VPN + an anonymous account like Mulvad achieves the same goal

So, for most threat models, using a non-Tor browser over the Tor network is really only reaping the benefit of (3), an incredibly high latency VPN. But again, a trusted VPN achieves the same goal with lower latency

Tor Network without Tor Browser should really be reserved for non-browsing web activities. I use it for software updates, for example.

Also - TorVPN is still a beta product, it is not yet a reliable network proxy tool by the dev's own admission. Use Orbot if IP obscurity is important

DirtyDan

Vanadium for security, Tor for anonymity (well, at least to attempt anonymity).

Privacy/Anonymity and Security are distinct concepts and they don't always align, especially the deeper you get into each of them.

Don't make the mistake of thinking something is "bad" because it's bad at one of them. Everything is a tool and you should use the best available tool for the specific task and goal.

Novaliss

gristle-cause Thank you for this insightful post. I guess I've been in need of reading up a bit deeper.😔👍

Hodlmol

The part of onlh the browsers itself i got it .. Vanadium nore safer tor browser more anonymous less safe....

Regarding tor routing if I have it clear the conclusion is vanadium with tor network/ onion routing is a bad idea because standing out? So in case always on tor network/onion routing better to use tor browser if needed to be on the web then vanadium or other suggestions?

Revliss

It's not just rogue exit nodes, some nodes are legitimately runed by foundations; a registered company the state has access to. Moreover Tor leaks OS information. My recommendation is to not use Tor anymore at all.

Buffering

Tor is slow. Real SLOW. Use it sparingly.