(Likely) New GOS User

proton

I think I’m about to take the plunge into Graphene OS, and I have a few questions.

A little context: I’m a pretty average internet user, and software development is way over my head. I’m interested in GOS because I’m tired of forfeiting my privacy just to take part in the modern world. I’m willing to give up a bit of convenience (e.g., banking apps) in the process, but still feel the need for smartphone capabilities. I had a Light Phone II for a while, and as much as I loved the idea, it was just a bit too restrictive and buggy for me. I’m not trying to achieve total online anonymity (that’s a pipe dream), but I’d like to significantly reduce the footprint of data that I provide to Google, Apple (I'm coming from an iPhone), Microsoft, Uncle Sam, etc. I’ve decided on Proton as an email/cloud service that I’m happy with.

I’ve poked around the forum a bit, and I’ve seen a few references to “threat model.” What exactly is this? I know that I need security, which is different from privacy (hence the requirement for the Pixel, as ironic as it may be). At the same time, I’m just your average Joe down the street with no major assets other than a modest bank account, so my security needs are not out of the ordinary.

I use the Proton suite as an alternative to Google services (I’m still working on getting rid of a Google account). Will I be able to use Proton easily with GOS? Specifically the Drive app for syncing photos and the occasional document.

I’d like to buy a Pixel 8a, and found what looks to be a good seller on eBay, courtesy of commodore64 (https://www.ebay.com/str/thegizmotrader). I know that I’m looking for a factory unlocked model. Any warnings against this, or suggestions?

If you’re still reading, thanks for your time.

Delaney

proton I’ve poked around the forum a bit, and I’ve seen a few references to “threat model.” What exactly is this?

The term “threat model” is just a fancy way to say “what are you hiding and who are you hiding it from?”

https://thenewoil.org/en/guides/prologue/threat-model/

bennyblanco

proton

You can absolutely use Proton suite on Grapheneos with or without a Google account. it works great, but it may make life a lot easier with a Google account, because you'll need to download it from somewhere - the Play Store - which is more secure than other options basically. You can set up a new Google account for this though as a 'disposable' one, that way you won't be giving Google any of your existing data.

The Pixel 8a will do what you want, although you'll probably get the advice to 'buy as new as possible' for the longer support. I found the battery to be a bit of a let down on the 8a but not too terrible.

Murcielago

proton

Hello and welcome to the forum - and (hopefully) to GrapheneOS soon as well.

A little context: I’m a pretty average internet user, and software development is way over my head.

That's no problem at all - installing and using GrapheneOS doesn't require a degree in computer science. GrapheneOS web installer is easy to use - just follow the instructions step by step. Don't worry: It seems impossible to brick your device during installation. And afterwards, in everyday use, a device running GrapheneOS feels almost just like any regular Android smartphone.

I’m willing to give up a bit of convenience (e.g., banking apps) in the process, but still feel the need for smartphone capabilities.

There are actually very few things that don’t run on GrapheneOS - the vast majority (including most banking apps) works just fine.

My personal advice - especially for someone who just switched from iOS to GrapheneOS/Android (AOSP) would be:
Use only the Owner Profile, install Sandboxed Google Play and just get your apps from PlayStore.

If you want to dive deeper ((which, depending on the threat model, may be completely unnecessary), you can still do so later on.

DirtyDan

proton Your use case fits very well within the use case of GrapheneOS. Welcome.

Proton apps work fine with GrapheneOS. Proton has actually donated money to GrapheneOS and have recommended it in some of their blogs. It would be nicee if their product teams put more focus on privacy focused OS's like GrapheneOS and Linux, but what can you do. Who's bitter, not me! /s

None of the Proton apps have a hard requirement for play services though and work fine under GrapheneOS's more intense sanfboxing. They can also be installed from outside the Play Store through f-droid or Obtainium if you're looking to trade marginal security for marginal privacy.

https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/28103-proton-apps

The biggest issue with Proton on GrapheneOS is with Proton Mail since it uses play services for push notifications. If you're fine with manually checking your email, then it's a non-issue. There is also You Have Mail that will poll proton and notify you for incoming emails. It's unofficial, I've never used it, so I'll leave it to others of whether it's safe to use.

For most people though, they'll just install Sandboxed play services with limited permissions. With that, everything works normally, no fuss. For reliable push notifications, you just need to allow Sandboxed play services to run at all times in the background and enable the network and notifications permissions. No need to sign into a Google account or enable more permissions unless you need to for other purposes.

You may have a slight learning curve, but that's mostly since you're switching from IOS to Android, not because GrapheneOS is that much more difficult to use compared to another Android device.

proton

Delaney Happy to say my threat model doesn't include any nuclear codes ;)

EverettHitch

bennyblanco You can set up a new Google account for this though as a 'disposable' one, that way you won't be giving Google any of your existing data.

How does disposable account take care of app updates? And if you use it for prolonged period, it's no longer disposable and will likely be deanonymized.

bennyblanco

EverettHitch When I say disposable, I don't mean single use, more like you don't need it/won't miss it if you lose it and you can delete it whenever you like. You could use it long term but it doesn't have any of your valuable data stored with it. It'd just be used for the Play Store.

EverettHitch

bennyblanco what I meant to say there is nothing like an anonymous Google account that is meant to be used in a secure way to obtain and update your apps in the long run. Either you are secure but ultimately not private from Google or you play a security charade that would bite you back.

proton

bennyblanco I was also wondering about your meaning, but this makes sense. I will probably end up doing something similar

VeryRob Thanks for the suggestion, I'll take a look

DirtyDan Thanks for the suggestions, though I don't use push notifications with email anyway, so it's not a concern

Thanks for the responses everyone! You'll see me around with more questions. I'd also like to say that I appreciate the Graphene project for a couple of reasons. One is the security and privacy that it offers, but also because I've enjoyed my time so far here on the forum, and this is exactly how I think the internet should be.

-Proton

VeryRob

Proton Drive is a good service, but not the best for photos. Check out Ente photos. End-to-end encrypted (meaning secure and private), free unless you need a lot of photos stored, super easy to use and tons of cool features too.

bennyblanco

No, unfortunately. Google's house, Google's rules I guess. There's always the risk of falling foul of their ToS using anything other than their official Android.

DeletedUser733

I cant help see the similarity between using iOS for its convenience in conectivity and using Proton suit to do the same thing, albeit with better privacy. Non the less; there is a well worn phrase "putting all your eggs in one basket"
If a problem arises with Proton, your mail, calendar, storage, vpn, passwords and other stuff, may be unavailable for a time.
I dont use Protonmail, because of this very reason.
Everything Proton supplies in one bundle I have via different providers.
By the way you have made the best choice available to mankind, on choosing GrapheneOS to run your mobile phone.