Not sure how this works exactly but figured I'd ask.

meowijuana

So with the upcoming Motorola partnership, I had a thought. I know that we don't pass strong integrity checks because google doesn't acknowledge GrapheneOS as it is now as a "certified build" of sorts, but with the partnership on Motorola hardware, I have a few questions. I've heard even on the stock Motorola OS, they might port GrapheneOS features like storage scopes over, and I'm guessing that as long as it's the stock Motorola OS, they'll have recognized signing keys regardless of what features they might implement. And I've also heard they might sell some phones with GrapheneOS pre installed, so I'm wondering if that phone could come with Motorola signing keys instead of or in addition to GrapheneOS signing keys. I don't know a ton about how that works, but I guess I'm wondering if this partnership opens even a slight possibility that we might someday pass strong integrity checks.

wizoatk

meowijuana a slight possibility that we might someday pass strong integrity checks.

It has been discussed. My understanding is that it still is a stretch goal further down the road.

de0u

meowijuana Though I have not seen contract terms recently, I believe Google enforces a long list of requirements on platforms they certify, including things many people here would not want, such as the full suite of Google apps being permanently installed.

So, sure, Motorola could ship an OS certified by Google that would pass Play Integrity... I think they already do! People who want that can get it now; people who want that plus some security and privacy enhancements that Google is neutral on may well be able to get that as part of a collaboration with GrapheneOS.

But for the foreseeable future I believe people who want a "de-Googled" or even "de-bloated" OS will not find Google certifying one.

userofgos

meowijuana I don't know a ton about how that works, but I guess I'm wondering if this partnership opens even a slight possibility that we might someday pass strong integrity checks.

See here: https://xcancel.com/GrapheneOS/status/2028525082113417568#m

No, Google would need to do that and we currently have no path to getting them to do that as they have no business reason to do it from their perspective.

meowijuana

Probably9857 wizoatk

Those are both helpful, thank you. Honestly I'm happy to hear anything other than "it's impossible and will never happen" at this point. Here's to hoping Motorola can apply sufficient pressure.

Probably9857

No. At least not in the way you are thinking.

A Motorola phone with GrapheneOS preinstalled will not pass strong integrity as it functions today.

The way this partnership might help is if Motorola can exert pressure on Google to change their policy. GrapheneOS has suggested on social media that Motorola might be willing to do that.

meowijuana

de0u I wasn't aware of the app requirement but that doesn't surprise me. So unless google changes their stance which is extremely unlikely, I suppose it's probably out of the question after all. Oh well, still extremely happy with the partnership either way, Google's annoying priorities don't change that. Thanks for the answer.

gristle-cause

I think I'd frankly rather see Motorolla unapologetically roll out a mainstream phone that fails Play Integrity. Force Google to choose between maximizing broad compatibility & continuing their monopolistic practices

meowijuana

gristle-cause that's a good point, I really hope Motorola can accomplish that. From what I've seen, they do have a slightly higher Android market share than google so I'm not sure if that carries any weight in terms of advocating for change. That's probably too idealistic to actually work but I hope it works anyway.

SierraBravo

I think the real question that needs to be asked is: "Did Motorola approach Graphene, or vice-versa?"

I mean the fact that they said they would release phones is impressive on its own, but if they were interested enough to initiate, that says more, and was it just a mid-level dev that got GrapheneOS running on a Moto device, and showed it around, or does this agreement stem from a more business centered position? These are questions we will probably never know, but there are edges there that really mean something. Does Motorola see Google as a bad partner, or do they see GrapheneOS as a short term marketing differentiator?

userofgos

SierraBravo I think the real question that needs to be asked is: "Did Motorola approach Graphene, or vice-versa?"

Been answered numerous times on Twitter/X: https://xcancel.com/GrapheneOS/search?f=tweets&q=Reached+out&since=&until=&min_faves=

Motorola reached out to us and wanted to work with us as part of improving their devices for businesses. The GrapheneOS support won't be at all specific to businesses though, that's just their focus as can be seen from their announcement about it. Companies asked them for this.

Yes, they reached out to us. It was prompted by them seeing our posts about having to deal with Pixels becoming more difficult to support for Android 16 and later which we ended up fully working around but with a lot of our development resources spent on that instead of privacy.

Neither current OnePlus or Motorola devices meet our requirements but Motorola reached out to us, made a partnership with us and is actively working on meeting all of our requirements. They're going to provide official GrapheneOS support and actively help us support their phones.

postcd

userofgos this Chinese company you want to cooperate with, may not be able to stop cooperating with you suddenly due to a Chinese government push? So the hardware backdoor impossible? Why?