Does GrapheneOS plan to comply with OS level age verification laws?

Echel0n

DeletedUser713 Actually, yes, this is starting. Many stores now do not simply want to look at your ID; they take your ID and scan it or swipe its magnetic strip, and all the information contained in your ID, and the details of your purchase, do, in fact, go into a database. Many of these stores aren't asking for ID only for tobacco/alcohol purchases, nor only when someone looks underage; they're requiring it by default for all kinds of purchases. It's a growing trend.

Echel0n

I came here hoping to hear from GOS developers themselves regarding any plans they have to deal with age verification. I've spent quite a lot of time scouring the Internet for any statements from the devs, but so far haven't found any. The discussion here is interesting, but does anyone know of any official position taken/statement(s) made by GOS devs on the matter of age verification?

Probably9857

Echel0n

I'm not aware of any official statement.

GrapheneOS devs occasionally participate here, but it's relatively rare. I don't think they actively monitor the forum; it's more community-driven.

To get an official statement from the project, you might have better luck asking on social media, or in the chat rooms.

DeletedUser713

Echel0n I don't know where you live, but in Germany that's not even technically possible, since our ID's RFID chip is locked down and needs a PIN for any such (or similar) functionality.

Probably9857

DeletedUser713

It's fairly common in the US. I've had this happen at grocery stores and bars when buying alcohol.

They never tell you they're going to scan it (at least in my experience). They just ask to see your ID, then pop it in the scanner before you have a chance to object.

Also, IDK if this is true elsewhere, but in my state, they require ID checks to buy certain items regardless of how old you look. I'm in my 50s and am regularly required to show ID just for age verification.

DeletedUser713

Probably9857 oh well, I guess the US really is becoming a dystopia... As of right now, I'm not aware of any similar plans in the EU, but I guess it will come here as well, sooner or later. The EU just loves to copy American nonsense, so it's highly likely they will also do that with offline ID verification.

Echel0n

DeletedUser713 I'm in the US.

Echel0n

Probably9857

Probably9857 in my state, they require ID checks to buy certain items regardless of how old you look. I'm in my 50s and am regularly required to show ID just for age verification

It's the same in my state (southern). More and more, they're requiring (and scanning) ID to allow purchases of things that aren't even illegal for minors to possess, regardless of how old one looks.

DeletedUser728

Echel0n purchases of things that aren't even illegal for minors to possess

Precursors for drugs, items known to be used for explosive, etc... There are a lot of modern chemistry-related "wows" that the DEA or other 3-letters are considering important for public safety.
And I think people like "I sooner sacrifice my and others lives than present my ID in a store" are in a diminishing minority. The question of balance here is extremely difficult.

DeletedUser728

DeletedUser713 The EU just loves to copy American nonsense

It's not true.

Echel0n

After spending several hours today digging deep into the OP's question, it seems that the real question is not whether GOS developers will choose to comply with or resist age verification laws, but whether they actually have any choice (whether they can do anything about age verification) from a technical aspect. After learning a bit about GOS' hardening model, and about the way that Google intends to implement/enforce age verification, it strongly appears that GOS devs won't be able to touch or circumvent Google's enforcement mechanisms, which reside at levels deeper than GOS -- at least not in the current GOS strategy. I really hope I'm wrong about this, or that I've overlooked/misunderstood something important. I'd really like for one of the GOS devs to tell me how and why I'm wrong. Unless and until that happens, based on what I've learned today, I have a sinking feeling for the future of GOS in the face of Google's stazi tactics. It's really depressing.

DeletedUser728

Probably9857 They never tell you they're going to scan it (at least in my experience). They just ask to see your ID, then pop it in the scanner before you have a chance to object.

I guess it also may be a question of fake IDs that forces them touse tools. It's not fair to blame anyone who is a gatekeeper (bartender, cashier) they have not spotted the ID is fake because it's dark in the bar, for example.
Why would anyone be forced to know all the aspect of how they fake IDs nowadays to be able to assess if it's legal to sell you drugs/pot or an alcohol.

secrec

DeletedUser713 does the cashier create a permanent record of your full name, address, date of birth, religion, height and of every bottle of beer you bought, when you bought it, how you paid, how long you looked at the bottle, which other brands you looked at and for how long, create a psychological profile based on your behavior and then send this information over to the government? No? Oh.

You ever bought alcohol in Canada? They literally do exactly that. They even ID old people and write down details along with the purchase receipt.

One of the reasons I NEVER buy alcohol.

Xtreix

Echel0n Age verification is used in privileged GMS. GrapheneOS does not use privileged Google Mobile Services or any Google privileged services. You install Play Store and Play Services non-privileged and they work like a standard app in the sandbox, this is why in Private Space or in a secondary profile, you must install Play Services and Play Store again to access your data on Play Store from Private Space or the secondary profile.

There is also no user account when you use GrapheneOS and sandboxed Google Play services is optional.

randomname

Reading some comments about US and australia feel like dystopia nightmare

DeletedUser787

randomname Europe goes the same direction.

Poland's PM Donald Tusk leads the Civic Coalition government. On Feb 27, their Education Minister Barbara Nowacka announced plans for a law banning social media for kids under 15. Platforms must verify ages (possibly via digital ID) or face up to 6% revenue fines. Draft aims for 2027 effect; 77% Poles support per polls. It's not yet law and focuses on child protection, though critics flag privacy risks from verification.

dhhdjbd

age verification, if it is a must, could easily exist without privacy violations,
but these laws are written by lobbiest and companies and not for the people.

Lucian

secrec And yet they do. Take Toyota Tacoma for example (model year 2024 and newer). They offer just ONE engine, but different trim levels make different horsepower. There's 228 hp in the "SR" trim, 278 hp in the "SR5" trim, 270 hp in the "TRDOR" trim (note, I'm leaving out the "hybrid" trims because they have different power due to adding in the electric motor as well).

So why the huge 50 hp swing? That's in the SOFTWARE. Control at what intake pressure the waste gate opens to bypass the turbo.

This doesn't change my argument that its not so hard to make multiple flavour's of software with minimal differences

niko-goso

Dunno where the GOS team's heads are at when they censor discussion about the very technocracy their users are fighting against. The very tyranny that threatens them and all their users. Might as well delete this entire thread. Absolutely bizarre. Raises serious questions.

The Age Verification agenda is global and [removed]. They will not allow Libre Open Source infrastructure to exist outside their Digital ID surveillance and enforcement infrastructure.

[Mod note: removed some political stuff from this post.]
[Please no politics here. That's why earlier posts were removed. If people cannot follow rules, then we will have to take further action.]

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