How to choose a cheap secondary smartphone for using Google Pay or Apple Pay

handsome3068

I'm currently using a Pixel with stock Android.
The reason I'm not using GrapheneOS is that Google Pay's NFC tap-to-pay doesn't work on it.

However, for security reasons, I've decided to install GrapheneOS on my Pixel.
This means I'll lose access to Google Pay tap-to-pay. In my area, banks often run cashback campaigns that require using Google Pay or Apple Pay, and I'd like to take advantage of those rewards.
So, I'm thinking about buying a cheap secondary smartphone just to install my banking and payment apps. I'm considering buying a used device—is there anything I should watch out for?

Quantum

handsome3068 Maybe a used pixel A series?

marq2

handsome3068

maybe a smartwatch like garmin if paying is being able to pay with os enough? it is working great for me

GraphPaper

Maybe not absolute cheapest option, but when considering and prioritising size / convenience for a 2nd phone banking option then an iPhone 12 or 13 mini could be a useful suggestion.

After buying a used one, bring to Apple store and ask them to perform DFU device firmware update to wipe whatever software is currently on it, over writing it with latest software, as a security precaution due to buying it in used condition

ObjectiveMoon

GraphPaper I'm pretty sure you can DFU wipe with your own PC, no need Apple Store.

GraphPaper

ObjectiveMoon

Yes you absolutely can DFU on home PC (or Mac) however, from a purely security point of view, you'd want to have high confidence in the home computers security to perform this exercise of reinstalling of iPhone software especially with banking in mind.

If you have any uncertainty about home computer security or simply want to remove that computer from the equation, then using Apple store is useful option to consider.

n3t_admin

GraphPaper you'd want to have high confidence in the home computers security to perform this exercise of reinstalling of iPhone software especially with banking in mind.

The chances of your computer being infected with some sort of severe exploit that can bypass secure boot (LLB and Boot ROM, refer to Apple's Platform Security Guide here) is pretty close, if not zero. The chance of a random Mac at an Apple Store being infected with the same malware is substantially higher, but still close to zero.

GraphPaper

n3t_admin

I've a choice of two home computers, a 6 year old Windows laptop and my brothers 2015 Macbook pro.

Apple performs the DFU on a Genius Bar Macbook, so not entirely random.

The chances of either of my home computers being more secure than the genius bar macbook is an amusing concept.

n3t_admin

GraphPaper They are running standard macOS with basically the same features that every Mac comes with by default. Don't glorify the Genius Bar as some sort of divine entity. And just by that same logic: why would anyone who actually cares about security so much, run a 10 year old laptop that has only basic security patches at this point?

GraphPaper

n3t_admin

A large portion of the population can't afford to buy a new home computer every year. Some of us are lucky enough to be able to use GrapheneOS for most things and an old computer as little as possible, other are not so lucky and have to depend on just an old computer for everything they need to do online.

Keeping in mind some people are forced to use even older hardware, It's really reckless to post in a security focussed forum that a home computer has almost zero chance of dangerous malware while also advising to avoid going to Apple to help out if their home computer can't be deemed safe.

n3t_admin

GraphPaper I don't understand your argument here.

A large portion of the population can't afford to buy a new home computer every year. Some of us are lucky enough to be able to use GrapheneOS for most things and an old computer as little as possible, other are not so lucky and have to depend on just an old computer for everything they need to do online.

No one said that you have to buy one every year. But you can surely replace it after 10 years with a new model, albeit used, which should be cheap enough. If you can't - then sorry, don't use a computer.

GraphPaper Keeping in mind some people are forced to use even older hardware, It's really reckless to post in a security focussed forum that a home computer has almost zero chance of dangerous malware while also advising to avoid going to Apple to help out if their home computer can't be deemed safe.

I don't get it. Why can't their home computer be deemed "safe"? Why can the Mac at the Genius Bar be deemed safe? Do you know what macOS version it is running? Do you know who maintains it? Do you have any way to check the integrity of that system? Do you really trust some random employee who has no idea what OpSec even means to maintain a secure environment to flash a device? Geniuses have been caught airdropping nudes from customer phones to their own devices - how sure can you be, that your Genius isn't a malicious creep?

And for your "critique" of my statement: I'll die on that hill. What an exploit of this caliber would require, is an exploit chain across different devices and software versions which is so insanely hard to pull off reliably for iOS, that only nation state actors would have the resources to develop and maintain it, if at all. Without physical access to the device, too. Maybe you can list some examples of such attacks - I don't know of any. Your average malware will be some info stealer that dumps your cookies, passwords and crypto. Not an intricately designed piece of software that borders on Stuxnet levels.

I'll end the OT here; this is getting so hypothetical, that it doesn't even make sense discussing it any further.

GraphPaper

n3t_admin

Please do end it here and stop spreading reckless FUD about home computers being safe from malware