Signal or Molly

Novalissoide

Ziya found Molly battery hungry

Even with Unifiedpush?

Ziya

Novalissoide no with unified push it's much better but twinhelix version I personally found to be best for battery without firebase

EverettHitch

I don't find Molly battery hungry even with websockets. Obviously the more you use the app the more battery it drains and the biggest drain is video not the push.

xxx

EverettHitch
I'm trying again after a long time with Unified Push.

Novalissoide

Ziya got it. 👍🏾

xyzalphabeta

Came accross this thread when researching the benefits of molly over signal, but so far it seems molly is not needed for my threat model. Also whats up with people saying you need play services for signal to work. Mine works fine in main profile without google play services and I get notifications just fine and also it doesnt drain my battery at all. Not sure why people say this is the case.

eggy Signal is really not meant for degoogled users and it will leak your matadata to Google.

Whats up with the signal leaks your metadata to google claim? You mean when you have both apps within one profile there is inter communication? Wouldnt running it in a profile without Google Play Services already eliminate this?

All in all molly seems based but idk if I need it.

eggy

xyzalphabeta No, what I really meant is that any app that depends on FCM for push notifications will leak your metadata to Google as FCM = Google. Molly is no different if you choose to use FCM there. I consider Molly's FCM support an anti-feature. Signal does not IPC to Google Play services.

Your anecdotal claim of Signal's websockets "not draining your battery at all" is complete nonsense. Having each app hold its own websocket for notifications is obviously bad for your battery life which is why Molly added UnifiedPush support although it's currently buggy and desperately needs a new Mollysocket release. Even if you only need notifications for Signal, its websocket was created for foreground use and it fires keepalive messages at twice the rate of a UP distributor (30 vs 60 seconds) like Sunup which is wasteful for everyday use.

K8y

xyzalphabeta when you have both apps within one profile there is inter communication? Wouldnt running it in a profile without Google Play Services already eliminate this?

how many separate profiles can you have on GOS? So create one just for Google apps, and these won't communicate with the other apps in a separate profile?

I thought even if you have all apps together in same profile they still can't intercommunicate because of "sandbox". No?

Lucian

Forsaked Molly can by using alternative push service, which drains the battery.

Is there any source that Unified Push costs more energy then Google Play with FCM?

xyzalphabeta

eggy

ah ok thx for the explainer. My battery is fine, lasts two days. Good enough for me.

Wadder

LunaticBuzz he does now sell the magazine and recently sent out issue #10 in January

K8y

LunaticBuzz he only sells the 5th edition. The various digital editions were discontinued in 2024: https://inteltechniques.com/books.html

are the earlier versions of the book better?

LunaticBuzz

K8y
Each edition updates the previous with new approaches. Eventually he gave up doing different things for different phones, basically saying that if you were serious, you needed to get a GrapheneOS phone. The digital editions were supplements to the 4th edition, each specialising in an aspect of privacy: phones, computers, etc. He recommends GOS for phones, System76 for computer hardware, Pop!OS for OS, etc. There are also anonymised stories about actual client experiences. Once the 5th edition came out, physically and electronically, the e-books were retired. Now he publishes an electronic magazine called UNREDACTED.

userofgos

K8y how many separate profiles can you have on GOS?

See here: https://grapheneos.org/features#more-user-profiles

GrapheneOS raises the limit on the number of secondary user profiles to 32 (31 + guest) instead of only 4 (3 + guest) to make this feature much more flexible.

K8y

userofgos GrapheneOS raises the limit on the number of secondary user profiles to 32 (31 + guest) instead of only 4 (3 + guest) to make this feature much more flexible.

what is the benefit of sandbox then if need to separate apps in different profiles? I thought GOS sandbox was to ensure apps in same profile can't intercommunicate...

Johnnyloans

K8y

Sandbox is primarily for virus protection.

Apps can intercommunicate. Both apps communicating need to be specifically programmed to talk to that one other specific app.

Several benefits of profiles (private space is a separate profile. Faster and more convenient that another traditional profile):

Blank slate of contacts, pics, files for apps to access. You can have apps not run in the background when you close the profile session. Could keep google play services out of your owner profile if you want. I'm sure there's more.

userofgos

K8y the App Sandbox is an AOSP feature: https://source.android.com/docs/security/app-sandbox

GrapheneOS documentation related to app sandbox:
https://grapheneos.org/features#improved-sandboxing

GrapheneOS improves the app sandbox through hardening SELinux policy and seccomp-bpf policy along with all the hardening to components like kernel implementing the app sandbox and providing a path for the attacker to escape it if they can exploit those components. We primarily focus on the app sandbox, but we also improve the other sandboxes including making direct improvements to the web browser renderer sandbox used for both the default browser and WebView rendering engine provided by the OS and used by a huge number of other apps from dedicated browsers to messaging apps...

Additional documentation:
https://grapheneos.org/faq#hardware-identifiers
https://grapheneos.org/faq#non-hardware-identifiers

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