Nokia Mission-Safe Phone

Swamper

Nokia just announced the Mission-Safe Phone. It is supposed to run a hardened (Android?) OS and an alternative with Google Play Services.
https://www.nokia.com/industries/defense/mission-safe-phone/
https://tecknexus.com/nokia-unveils-defense-grade-private-5g-for-tactical-comms/
There is very little information about this. I'm very curious how the OS of this phone would compare to GrapheneOS. Does anyone know anything about this?

Curious

Hm... interesting, but... the biggest question is, would this be compatible with banking apps etc.?
Or is it gonna be one of those feature-phones (basicly no dumb phone but also no smart-phone)

r134a

Interesting indeed, however most of what i've skimmed fast through is based more on a tactical environment where the phone has to be used with it's own separate portable 'ad-hoc' radio platform?

Byku

Nice find. I used to love Nokia phones back in the day. They were way ahead of anything else in tech specs and very robust too. But aren't they basically gone now and Microsoft has bought them out? The phone in question looks like something advertised to military forces. What about civilian market?

Viewpoint0232

I wouldn't be surprised if Nokia/HMD is the rumoured OEM for GrapheneOS.

Andromxda

Viewpoint0232 It's not. I'm not sure whether I should share the source, it's semi-public information. AFAIK official GrapheneOS accounts have so far avoided mentioning the name of the OEM, so I'm hesitant to share it. But I can tell you that much: It's not Nokia.

argante

Marketing gibberish. They could have just provided specifications. They use Qualcomm, but is there support for MTE? There's no mention of a secure element like the Titan M.

de0u

Andromxda I'm not sure whether I should share the source, it's semi-public information. AFAIK official GrapheneOS accounts have so far avoided mentioning the name of the OEM, so I'm hesitant to share it. But I can tell you that much: It's not Nokia.

I suspect that anybody who actually knows also knows how important it is to keep quiet, to avoid possibly disrupting the negotiations. And I suspect responsible parties in the know are also aware of the dangers of "Well, I'll say it's not so-and-so".

I would hope that people who want to help the project would be able to figure out when helping the project means keeping quiet.

Please note that I do not speak for the GrapheneOS project.

Miles

Is it a real nokia phone? It seems that its coming from real nokia and not from an OEM

r134a

Their promotional video (https://youtu.be/hAjeqDvLBeY) shows aswell the reliance on a ad hoc radio platform. It seems they have several other infrastucture targeted at defense/tactical missions aswell. I think the phone's primarely/only use is in those type of scenarios in conjunction with other infrastructure not for civillian use. I doubt this phone will be available on the 'consumer' market, or be of any use for a regular civillian at all.

phone-company

I will try to buy one of it is available

argante

phone-company I will try to buy one of it is available

The Mission-Safe Phone and the upgraded Banshee 5G Tactical Radio signal that 3GPP-based private wireless is mature enough for deployed operations, not just demonstrations. The Banshee refresh integrates 5G connectivity into a rugged, portable “network in a box” designed for fast setup, hardening, and easy transport. By pairing a purpose-built handset with a ruggedized, rapidly deployable radio hub (...)

But are you planning to buy this phone with the Banshee router? It weighs 11 kg and takes up an entire backpack :) It's a regular phone, maybe a little more ruggedized (which can be achieved with a tactical case). There's nothing to get excited about with this phone :)

argante

Can anyone provide any facts about this phone, beyond the marketing? Military personnel often simply use Samsung phones with special TAK software (here's the civilian version). Such phones connect to a secure router that integrates with the military's communications infrastructure. I really don't understand the excitement over this phone.

EDIT: Can someone zoom in on this phone model to identify the manufacturer?
https://tak.gov/packs/media/img/uploads/solutions-thumb-10-50ec530629863d39164861b347f32aa6.jpg

r134a

argante Can someone zoom in on this phone model to identify the manufacturer?

https://files.catbox.moe/zwkm8o.png

r134a

This phone looks 'suspiciously' the same and seems targeted at the same market: https://www.hmdsecure.com/hmd-ivalo-xe

Xtreix

r134a Because it's the same phone, HMD is the manufacturer of Nokia phones.

argante

r134a And bottom right.

argante

Pros and cons:
(-) CPU: Qualcomm Dragonwing Q-6690 does not have MTE (Memory Tagging)
(+) Radio hardware kill-switch - Turn off all connections on hardware level including cellular, GPS, Wi‑Fi, and Bluetooth with one button.
(+) AReX anti-tampering - Critical components protected by mesh shielding and sensors that detect intrusion with 3 security levels
(+) Nice Tactical Outfit modularity - extension link (e.g. external battery)

And that's probably all that can be written about this phone now.

r134a

argante Seems like it's all the same phone, and if so, seems it will function on 'public' cellular networks aswell. The last phone also targets the 'business' market, so perhaps it will be more easily obtainable and useable as i initially thought based on nokia's marketing.

Xtreix

argante It's funny, I often see the same marketing nonsense on these products such as the well-known "government-grade security" and "military-grade". I also don't quite understand what they mean by two isolated operating systems, one for confidential work and one for personal use, isn't that what system-wide profiles already do ? It would be interesting to have more information about this “Bittium Secure OS” and their “Hardened Android OS.”

argante

r134a Nokia's website is a bit misleading. These solutions don't just consist of the phone itself. They're some kind of SDR-based relay that can operate within a mesh network and also connect to a router that forwards data (e.g., a satellite connection). The cheapest way to build something like this is the Meshtastic ATAK Plugin - see CanaryOne. However, Meshtastic isn't a secure solution. Affordable solution is the Beartooth MK II, which already has significantly improved security. The top-of-the-line solution is the goTenna. This Nokia phone is described in this topology, but it's still a normal phone. You can also customize your Pixel this way.