GOS Phones Can't TX/RX to/from or Ping Wifi Network Peers, Including Themselves

snottnose

Please excuse the length here. This is somewhat complex.

Participating GrapheneOS Devices:
Pixel 8a Has SIM card & cellular service. Successfully provides hotspot to Pixel 8 Pro
Pixel 8 Pro: Has no SIM card or cellular service. Successfully uses either hotspot or home wifi for Internet activity and VoIP phone service

Neither of my GOS phones can ping any local wifi network device. This is true whether Pixel 8 Pro is connected to Pixel 8a hotspot or any other wifi network. Also, if either GOS phone is connected to the same home wifi's main (not guest) network, a PC on that network can ping both phones. But while connected to the network, neither GOS phone can ping the PC or each other.

Several days ago the 3rd-party app, LocalSend, worked perfectly on the Pixel 8 Pro. Now it doesn't "see" any peer clients on the network its logged into via wifi. However, that app instead offers a facility to manually assert a peer client by entering its IP address. This failed. The app apparently uses a ping or ICMP function in an API call to confirm that device's network membership, because the resulting error was...

[RhttpTimeoutException] Request timed out. URL: https://198.162.1.2:53317/api/localsend/v1/info

Since another laptop successfully connected to this same network and ping the PC peer client, by logic I don't suspect the router, Windows Firewall, or the PC as a culprit.

Concise context:
Wifi Network: "Main" network is active. No "Guest" network is active.
Router: No "AP Isolation," "Client Isolation," or "Guest Mode" features enabled
Router: No "Smart Connect" or "band steering" feature is enabled
Router: No multicast or broadcast filtering features found in any of router admin pages, nor in Google search for "ad7200"|"r9000"|"nighthawk x10" "multicast filtering"|"broadcast filtering"
Router: Phones A & B are listed as clients, neither are in any blacklist, and both show as "Allowed"
Router: All wifi networks are secured by WPA2-PSK (AES) only, and not WPA/WPA2-PSK (TKIP/AES)
Router: All tests conducted alternately with 1 of 2 routers, each from different manufacturers.
PC: No VPN active or installed
PC: Active network is set to private
PC: All tests conducted alternately with 1 of 2 different PCs.
PC: All network device drivers are current on the host PC
PC: Windows 10 is updated on both PCs
Phones A & B: Neither has any active firewall app or features
Phones A & B: Termux terminal software is installed & working
Phones A & B: PingTools software is installed & working
Phones A & B: Neither phone is asleep during any test
Phones A & B: Neither can ping peer network clients or the router controlling the network they're currently logged into.

I don't currently have installed the ADB facility to capture the log stream in realtime from any phone.
Oddly enough, PingTools did document the existance of the router, by representing it with an icon that looks like a router, along with its IP address. Yet, its very own Ping function timed out when pinging the same address. So, the Android operating system supports, at least by some method, the identification of peer network clients. But at least in my case, the outgoing ICMP protocol necessary to "ping" fails.

Question: Is there any GrapheneOS setting that would allow Android phone network clients (using PingTools or Termux) to ping another network client? Or that would allow LocalSend to see, send data to, and receive data from network peers?

userofgos

What exactly is your end goal here? To get LocalSend working again across all your devices? What exactly are you using LocalSend for? Are you only using Termux to try and ping your PC from your phone, or is there another use you have need of that only works if you can talk to your PC over LAN?

This is information that would allow myself and other members on this forum to better help you find a solution that meets your needs and use case.

snottnose Several days ago the 3rd-party app, LocalSend, worked perfectly on the Pixel 8 Pro. Now it doesn't "see" any peer clients on the network its logged into via wifi. However, that app instead offers a facility to manually assert a peer client by entering its IP address.

Have you tried uninstalling the LocalSend app on all your devices and then reinstalling it? Maybe you (un)intentionally made changes that you are no longer aware of that cause the breakage.

I've only used LocalSend once in the past, then later deleted it as I didn't need it. I reinstalled it just now to see if I ran into any issues. I currently use ProtonVPN on both my Macbook (with Allow LAN connection) and Pixel 8a (turned off Block connections without VPN for this test and enabled LAN connections in the Proton app). On both devices they were able to see each other as peers, I sent an image both ways with no issues.

Have you tried any other Local Area Network file sharing apps such as Syncthing, KDE Connect, or croc? Have you tried creating a secondary user profile and performing the the same tests?

At this point the goal should be discovering which device(s) is the issue. If you can afford to factory reset one of your Pixel devices and start fresh, that would be my suggestion (if you've already tried secondary user profiles). Then only install LocalSend, take a random photo test if you can send it to your PC. If that fails, that would suggest the issue lies with the PC or the router config (which is less likely if you've kept the defaults)

snottnose

I'm the OP. I just discovered I have NO CONTACTS. My contacts sync provider, Etesync, has had no recent updates. The GOS update dated 2 days ago is a much more likely culprit. Other apps that deliver contact records, including Groundwire Softphone, AND the native GOS Contacts app show no contact records. This is the case even though Etesync is explicitly registered as an "account" under GOS.

Could someone ...anyone from the GOS team please reply here? Hopefully you can offer some effective troubleshooting steps, or at least declare a release failure and suggest reverting to the previous GOS version.

I'm prohibited from creating a separate issue here on the GOS Discussion Forum.
PLEASE HELP

snottnose

Thank you very much userofgos, for taking time to respond. I have a response to your questions about LocalSend. But first I need to divert your attention from my original post, & address the elephant in the room. The last GOS update broke several things. The most critical failure is the support for contact synchronization, specifically Etesync. As result, I now have no contact data -period. No names, phone numbers, -anything.

Also, my banking app broke. So, no contacts & no banking app. The LocalSend app was helpful to shuttle info between my phone and my PC, but that issue is now moot. Now, I have a crisis. This is no longer a bug report. As we speak, I'm now researching GOS competitors so I can jump ship and have somewhere to land. I accept that Google has shackled GOS, and I laud GOS's courage & determination. But, without contacts and a banking app, I myself am now shackled.

Would you suggest that I'm in a small majority?

userofgos

snottnose Thank you very much userofgos, for taking time to respond.

You're welcome, I'm genuinely trying to help you, though it is hard when you are not providing enough information about your device setup whether you have installed Sandboxed Google Play, only use Owner/main profile (default) or also have a Private Space or Secondary User Profiles setup, etc.

snottnose The LocalSend app was helpful to shuttle info between my phone and my PC, but that issue is now moot.

I'd suggest looking into Syncthing/Syncthing-Fork as it would make more sense if your use of LocalSend was to have the same data haphazardly synced across devices. Syncthing is specifically made for that.

snottnose The most critical failure is the support for contact synchronization, specifically Etesync. As result, I now have no contact data -period. No names, phone numbers, -anything.

Do you use Contact Scopes for any apps? What is your EteSync setup?

Not sure if there's any relation, but there is this thread that might be helpful, especially if you use WhatsApp:
https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/18509-all-my-contacts-disappeared-except-for-two

Here is a quote from that thread:

Are your contacts stored "On your device" or "In your Google account"? Because if the latter, it is not surprising at all that disabling the contact providing service for one storage method causes all those contacts to become inaccessible. Although, if it is the former, it sounds similar to the issue I had maybe.

Note: I don't use EteSync. In your case are your contacts stored "On your device" or "In your EteSync account"? Did the EteSync account in Settings > Passwords, passkeys & accounts > EteSync > Contacts get turned off?

snottnose Also, my banking app broke.

Again, more details please. What does this mean? Does the app refuse to open, or crashes when you click on it? or is and issue with not receiving the 2FA codes to log in? Is it installed in Owner profile, Private Space, or Secondary User? Does it need Google Play Services and Google Play Store installed in order to function?

It may help to read through the GrapheneOS website, specifically on banking app compatibility: https://grapheneos.org/usage#banking-apps and https://privsec.dev/posts/android/banking-applications-compatibility-with-grapheneos/

snottnose This is no longer a bug report. As we speak, I'm now researching GOS competitors so I can jump ship and have somewhere to land. I accept that Google has shackled GOS, and I laud GOS's courage & determination. But, without contacts and a banking app, I myself am now shackled.

I understand how you you can confidently blame everything on GrapheneOS or the update. Quite often that is not the case, of course there are times when it is, but more commonly it's due to user error (I know this from my own experience).

What is the current GrapheneOS build number you are on? For reference I'm on 2025091000

snottnose Would you suggest that I'm in a small majority?

Yes

IcyScroll

Just verified, LocalSend on my GOS device is still working fine for me.

snottnose Would you suggest that I'm in a small majority?

Absolutely, otherwise there would be much more similar reports. There were some regarding RCS and even that wasn't caused by the update.

snottnose As we speak, I'm now researching GOS competitors so I can jump ship and have somewhere to land.

I will spare your time: if you care about security it's either iOS with lockdown mode or stock Pixel OS. If you don't even know what you were doing here, you might go with Samsung. Something to keep in mind: Devices lacking standard privacy/security patches and protections aren't private

snottnose

With Etesync, you open an account with them, install their app, then register Etesync among your "Accounts", like one does with Google. Then, the Etesync app brokers contact data between the OS and apps that use or relay contact data. Like, DW Dialer, and Groundwire softphone. With Etesync, my contact data is housed in the cloud, encrypted, and out of Googles grimey hands. It requires no administration, I never touch the Etesync app.

I'm on GOS 2025091000 also. The most I've recently changed in my GOS config is enabled Wifi Verbose Logging. Otherwise, I could accept personal responsibility. I read some weeks back about the banking compatibility problem. But for my bank's app, it proactively required an update -the day after GOS's update. Now, its stuck at a post-install screen, & I can't log in. The timing of the 2 updates is admitted wierd. But still highly suspicious. If the bank app update came before GOS's I'd quickly blame the bank.

Now, sadly, I'm looking very seriously at IodéOS. It breaks my heart to leave GOS. I'm a red-blooded patriot, addicted to freedom & liberty.

After writing this reply, I've now changed my mind to back up my phone as much as possible. Then wipe it & install a clean version of GOS. Then, if most, or at least some of my problems go away, I'll stick with GOS.

userofgos

snottnose The most I've recently changed in my GOS config is enabled Wifi Verbose Logging. Otherwise, I could accept personal responsibility.

It's been repeatedly discussed about the potentials side effects and/or bugs/issues that come with enabling ANY Developer Options.

snottnose I'm looking very seriously at IodéOS.

I should hope you have seriously researched how incredibly insecure e/os is. It is not at all up to the standards they claim. See:

snottnose After writing this reply, I've now changed my mind to back up my phone as much as possible. Then wipe it & install a clean version of GOS. Then, if most, or at least some of my problems go away, I'll stick with GOS.

You don't even need to reinstall it (via Web-installer or cmd) just factory reset from System settings or Recovery. See: https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/2240-factory-reset-or-clean-reinstall

snottnose

Thanks for reminding me about factory reset. Yes, that would be a lot more painless.

I can't disagree with you about e/os. The painful question is, "What do we replace GOS with if Google is successful in grinding them out?".

userofgos

snottnose What do we replace GOS with if Google is successful in grinding them out?

Still highly speculative

GrapheneOS

snottnose What makes you think hobby projects based on AOSP which have never been able to keep up with updates are going to be able to do better? Why are you promoting highly insecure operating systems based on something you don't have evidence is tied to GrapheneOS specifically?

snottnose

Thanks ICyScroll for your info about LocalSend. That convinces me to hang around GOS longer, because I dearly love it and have become critically dependent on it (GOS). As loyal as I've been to GOS, and for so long, the question remaining is very painful, "What do we replace GOS with if Google is successful in grinding them out?".

Do you have any idea what you would do without GrapheneOS? I consider their demise highly unlikely in the very near term. But the farther I look into the future, the spookier it gets.

userofgos

snottnose But the farther I look into the future, the spookier it gets.

We still have until April 2032 before support for the Pixel 9a (longest supported device) ends (not including additional security updates): https://grapheneos.org/faq#device-lifetime

See GrapheneOS latest tweets regarding the current state they are in: https://xcancel.com/GrapheneOS/status/1964810433992261960#m

snottnose

Sorry, GrapheneOS. I didn't intend to either criticize GOS or promote any of the lesser ROMs. I'm deeply offended at how Google's tying as hard as possible to wipe out GOS & the entire custom ROM community. My problem is not with GOS, but with Google. If they're successful, I don't know what I or any of the other GOS users would do.

Obviously I offended you. Please forgive me.

userofgos

snottnose Obviously I offended you. Please forgive me.

I'm pretty sure they are not offended, even if it came across that way. They simply care about correcting inaccurate/misleading claims about security and privacy, especially when it comes to these alternative AOSP OS's that are constantly spreading misinformation, and causing harm to GrapheneOS (the OS, the Developers, it's users), and those that new/unaware of the nuances when it comes to security/privacy and data collection.

Quite often these alternative insecure AOSP OS's and their communities focus heavily on "de-googling" which tends to draw a lot of newcomers, in the name of reducing the data collection from Big Tech and enforcing the idea that "everything Google is bad", and also their goal should be to avoid anything Google on Android, which is incredibly nuanced and comes with a lot of hurdles that most individuals will give up on.

These alt AOSP OS's consistently berate GrapheneOS for only supporting Google Pixels, using Sandboxed Google Play instead of microg (which is less secure, but these alt AOSP OS's still use, so in that sense they are not "degoogled"), and yet they are all lagging behind on security patches and are based on AOSP so they are still dependent on Google regardless.

snottnose

It appears GOS is flanked by adversaries, Google from on high & the Alts nipping at their heels,

I'm working feverishly to backup my phone before reseting it. Documenting every setting of some fairly advanced apps is a huge headache. I hope I don't miss anything.

App Manager by Muntshir Al-Islam, on F-Droid looks promising for documenting my apps. If you know of anything better, I'd be thankful for any recommendations.

IcyScroll

snottnose App Manager is a great tool. Even for just viewing the most recently updated apps or verifying checksums of .apk files and signatures used to sign them. You can even get it from IzzyOnFdroid Repo.

userofgos

snottnose if you need a quick and simple solution to backup your SMS, MMS, Call Logs, Contacts, Blocked numbers you can use SMS IMPORT/EXPORT app; copy those files to USB, and then import them through the same app installed on GrapheneOS.

A useful tool I use is AppListBackup to create a list of all my apps which I then reference whenever needed. It allows you to also filter apps by the App Store they where installed with which can be helpful.

snottnose

Another similar, but with a totally different feature set is JINA Drawer.

If it interests you, as my thanks for your help here, I've adopted a lot of Michael Bazzell strategies for privacy. I use a Pixel 8a in my back pocket as a hotspot for my Pixel 8 Pro that has no SIM card. It gets wifi from the 8a unless I'm home. The 8a has location disabled and was purchased under a pseudoname from Amazon using a throwaway account and delivered to a dropbox. I was able to avoid KYC with US Mobile. My VoIP account is with VoIP.ms & I use Groundwire softphone. The cost is carrying around the 2nd phone, along with my text messsages chopped into 160 character SMS segments. But, except for maybe the NSA, I'm not geo-tracked.

I spend $44 for _unlimited data with US Mobile + ~$5/month with VoIP.ms. I burnt a few brain cells getting it all working, but I'm a lot more free as a citizen.

Extreme Privacy - What It Takes To Disappear - 5th Edition (2024), by Michael Bazzell

https://inteltechniques.com/book7.html

The digital book is a downloadable .PDF.

I use simplelogin for anonymous email forwarding with a 3-character .ME custom domain. They have a reverse alias that helps a lot.

BTW, I'm not connected to Bazzell, US Mobile, VOiP.ms, or simplelogin.

userofgos

snottnose Another similar, but with a totally different feature set is JINA Drawer.

oof that UX/UI is ancient lol. I appreciate the suggestion, but I'll stick with the default launcher.

snottnose I've adopted a lot of Michael Bazzell strategies for privacy.

I heard about him a few years ago and have gone through his site (not thoroughly), I have yet to read his books though.

I don't quite understand the security/privacy benefits of carrying a second phone with sim/esim and connecting the "offline from cell network" 8a to wifi via hotspot from the 8 Pro. I believe it would be much more secure/private to only use public wifi on the 8a with a VPN you've paid for anonymously, and never turn off Airplane mode.

Is your 8a in airplane mode? If not, it still still is sending signals regardless of having no sim/esim.