newbie questions about trackers and web app notifications

blind-confused

hi, I'm a bit of a newbie. I had a few questions about trackers and privacy. Sorry if what I'll say will have misconceptions, I'm still learning that part.

1) I know that you can install a sandboxed version of Google Play services in GrapheneOS. If I understood correctly, this is necessary to receive reliable notifications from most third party messenger apps. But Google services (and lots of third party apps) are known to include trackers which regularly send your data to their parent companies or whatever. My question is, is this still going to happen, even though it's sandboxed GrapheneOS? (is this what the sandbox does, or does it have a different functionality?)

2) same question but for third party apps (Discord, WhatsApp, etc.) - are they also still going to send such network requests with my data?

3) if such network connections are blocked after all, could it be that, for example, a tracker sends a network request, but it's not allowed to, yet it keeps trying and trying, making hundreds or thousands of the same request, possibly loading up your RAM or network, or draining your battery? Are issues like that possible, or is that fully prevented, and I shouldn't worry about it?

4) possibly a silly question - are notifications reliable in web app versions of messengers? I was thinking to install some of them as web apps, but I need to make sure that I will receive notifications without delay, and they won't be skipped. Could it be that, if I open lots of other apps, the system will automatically close Vanadium in the background to obtain more RAM, and then I won't receive notifications in time?

Delaney

blind-confused Google services (and lots of third party apps) are known to include trackers which regularly send your data to their parent companies or whatever. My question is, is this still going to happen, even though it's sandboxed GrapheneOS?

Yes.

is this what the sandbox does, or does it have a different functionality?

You should read the official website's info if you haven't already: https://grapheneos.org/features#sandboxed-google-play

blind-confused 2) same question but for third party apps (Discord, WhatsApp, etc.) - are they also still going to send such network requests with my data?

Yes.

blind-confused 3) if such network connections are blocked after all,

Network connections are generally not blocked, unless you deny the app network access completely.

could it be that, for example, a tracker sends a network request, but it's not allowed to, yet it keeps trying and trying, making hundreds or thousands of the same request, possibly loading up your RAM or network, or draining your battery?

That depends on how the developer made the app. If the app really did something like this, there's nothing GrapheneOS can do about it.

blind-confused 4) possibly a silly question - are notifications reliable in web app versions of messengers?

Yes, but it requires Google play services

blind-confused

Delaney Yes.

:( that's sad, but I guess it's a lot to expect, for anyone to even be able to prevent such tracking.
would web apps be different in this regard, or? (although I'm still unsure how reliable notifications are in web apps, so I don't prefer them yet anyway, but still)

Delaney Yes, but it requires Google play services

wait... so Google Play services can somehow provide reliable never-skipped-never-delayed notifications for... web apps installed through Vanadium? 🤔 how do I set that up exactly?

Delaney

blind-confused that's sad, but I guess it's a lot to expect, for anyone to even be able to prevent such tracking.

For what it's worth, tracking isn't inherently bad. It's necessary in some cases for basic functionality. As a web developer, being able to log errors automatically is also valuable. If you really don't like trackers, you should consider not using the service at all and look for alternatives.

blind-confused wait... so Google Play services can somehow provide reliable never-skipped-never-delayed notifications for... web apps installed through Vanadium? 🤔 how do I set that up exactly?

The way message notifications work is that Google play services always checks for notifications in the background and android/GrapheneOS avoids killing it. This arrangement is reasonable because only one app needs to check rather than a bunch, which is good for battery conservation.

You don't need to set anything up. Just install google play services then get the web apps you want to use. Vanadium is based on Chromium so it's already setup to work with Play Services if it's installed

blind-confused

Delaney For what it's worth, tracking isn't inherently bad. It's necessary in some cases for basic functionality. As a web developer, being able to log errors automatically is also valuable. If you really don't like trackers, you should consider not using the service at all and look for alternatives.

yea it's just unpleasant, I guess. I'm cool with providing error logs usually, just not with the rest of it, you know. But oh well. I still need to talk to friends in those messengers, so I guess I won't think about it. It's sad though, that it also will drain battery somewhat, but it should still be better than Android, overall.

Delaney You don't need to set anything up. Just install google play services then get the web apps you want to use. Vanadium is based on Chromium so it's already setup to work with Play Services if it's installed

so there's no concern with like... if I open lots of other apps and cause Vanadium (and it's web apps) to close automatically in the background due to lack of RAM, will I still receive notifications from them with no delay or skip? (would I also receive them, if the same happened with regular Google-Play-installed messengers?)

that's rly cool. I guess I could use web apps for everything then. I hope there's no other downsides to it, like worse quality of voice/video calls, slower UI, etc.

also, do you happen to know whether web apps are always more secure than... apps installed from any app center?

Delaney

blind-confused so there's no concern with like... if I open lots of other apps and cause Vanadium (and it's web apps) to close automatically in the background due to lack of RAM, will I still receive notifications from them with no delay or skip?

I should've added that because it's Google play services handling message notifications and not individual apps, the apps do not need to be active for you to receive notifications. So yes, there's no concern as long as Google play services is running.

blind-confused also, do you happen to know whether web apps are always more secure than... apps installed from any app center?

Yes. Vanadium uses a sandbox for each site. The browser itself will also be sandboxed by android/GrapheneOS. So effectively, web apps will be sandboxed twice.

Web apps generally also have reduced access to phone data compared to installed apps, since they only exist within the browser.

DeletedUser433

Delaney Do web apps with an electron wrapper also have reduced access or just those that run in a browser

blind-confused

Delaney I should've added that because it's Google play services handling message notifications and not individual apps, the apps do not need to be active for you to receive notifications. So yes, there's no concern as long as Google play services is running.

then I guess I should give Google Play services unrestricted battery usage permissions? But are they even going to show up as an app icon anywhere, or will they be like an invisible system app?