Best non-Google hardware

kenmacd

Hello, I know only the Pixel phones are official supported, but after getting bitten by the Pixel 3 EDL bug and receiving no help from Google I refuse to purchase any of their hardware.

I'd like suggestions on the 'next best' hardware.

ve3jlg

kenmacd after getting bitten by the Pixel 3 EDL bug and receiving no help from Google I refuse to purchase any of their hardware.

I did not like supporting Google either.

One option is to save some money and buy a used Pixel. At least you have a good chance it is working properly, especially if you buy it from a place like GetOrchard.com that tests the phone and provides [a decent return period](https://)https://www.getorchard.com/faqs/article/how-do-returns-work/.

abcZ

None.

matchboxbananasynergy

GrapheneOS doesn't currently support or recommend any other devices besides Google Pixel devices.

In all honesty, on a personal note, if GrapheneOS didn't exist, I'd probably just get an iPhone.

kopolee11

Ditto on iPhone being the next best. If not iPhone, then flagship Samsung devices are another decent option. (GrapheneOS is of course not supported on Samsung hardware)

https://nitter.net/DanielMicay/status/1553520469520818184

abcZ

I wouldn't touch the fruit company with a 10 foot pole. At least with any android phone with firmware access, you can go in and delete a lot of the cruft for something less invasive. No such option with the fruit company -- all that is yours is there's no matter what you do.

kenmacd

Thank you the answers everyone. I should have mentioned that I know there's no 'official' support for non-pixel devices, and that iPhone's are out as I can't run code on them.

It looks like Samsung is probably the best for security features.

bayesian

kenmacd It looks like Samsung is probably the best for security features.

Are you joking me?
Every year at hacking conferences Samsung gets pwned and is the source of mockery all over the internet.

2022: https://www.sammyfans.com/2022/12/09/samsung-galaxy-s22-hacked-pwn2own-toronto-2022/
2021: https://www.forbes.com/sites/daveywinder/2021/11/06/samsungs-galaxy-s21-smartphone-boldly-hacked-what-users-need-to-know/?sh=34eec93937b3

LeaveMeAlone

Samsung is decent for hardware, security and updates, but absolutely riddled with bloatware that can only be disabled and not uninstalled, the bootloader is also locked.

LeaveMeAlone

This is a tough question. There's really nothing better than pixel at the moment. Maybe the fairphone? I would probably get an iPhone otherwise, as previously mentioned.

matchboxbananasynergy

LeaveMeAlone The Fairphone is notoriously bad. It ships with hardware that's already old on release data, overpromises about security updates but doesn't deliver etc.

(Flagship) Samsung phones are pretty good, as long as you use the OS they come with and never try to change it, as unlocking the bootloader or anything of that nature permanently disables security features in the device that you can't re-enable even if you go back to stock and lock everything up.

NarwhalSpace

matchboxbananasynergy HI, I'm a total noob at open source hardware & software but I feel strongly compelled to learn how I can increase my security and privacy. I'm looking at the Pixel 7a & GrapheneOS and from my beginner's perspective it seems a solid decision. But some Tech articles in my news feed talk about the Snapdragon chips & Xiaomi (and other) phones. I've had a Xiaomi Redmi Note 4 & I felt it was rich & featureful, but again I'm no expert. Other than some minor annoying things, it worked well. My question is can I install an open OS (like DivestOS) on my Samsung Galaxy Note 10 (which has no more support) successfully based upon your statement here about the bootloader issue? Thanks a bunch for any advice!

Eirikr70

Unfortunately, there is a huge gap between Pixels with GrapheneOS and other devices with stock or custom ROMs. Apart from Pixels and to a certain extent iPhones, I suppose your best bet might be a phone with a good support from DivestOS.

Fireskull

I like the concept of the crowdfunded (with money back guarantee if the funding target doesn't reaches the needed minimum) modular devices of this brand : https://www.shiftphones.com/. They build phones, tablets, headphones etc. and ask their customers what they want from new devices and implement the features most wanted if possible. One thing I really like is for example that you can open and repair the devices very easy, remove the battery if you want to. And you get spare parts if needed directly from them. Also they support the installation of alternative operating systems on their devices. Maybe some day they will implement the secure element (like Titan M on Pixels) that GrapheneOS needs if enough members of this community ask them to do so...?!

For example one of the devices they develop right now is the SHIFTmu its a phone that you also could be used like a tablet or laptop.

Another device in development right now is called SHIFTphone 8. I think its also possible that they will implement a secure element (like Titan M on Pixels) so GrapheneOS could be developed for it if enough people ask for it.

User2288

To OP:

I was exactly in your boat.

Venturing into the world of privacy involves swallowing a lot of unpleasant pills. MANY. One of those poison pills is having to buy a pixel phone and supporting google, or exposing yourself to theoretical back doors which may come in the future (or now) from the most dangerous company known, which I absolutely hate.

But ultimately the world of privacy is a world of compromises. No perfect solution. You have to make some concessions in order to eliminate bigger concession. Buying a pixel is one of those choices.

If warranty and failures is your concern then consider the following. The pixel 6a was available for just 300$US last month. Compared to the amount of money you'd be paying for samsung or an iphone, the pixel is a STEAL! You can buy two of them even. I'm blown away by how much of a phone I'm getting for this price. I walked into a store here that sold 80$US phone cases (which is ridiculous), but the thing was the case gave a replacement warranty on the whole phone! That made things interesting. There are also other third part sellers or websites (or even google itself) which might be selling "full accidental damage coverage" warranties. This extra money you pay may be worth for getting the piece of mind you want to have an absolute guarantee. The phone price with the warranty would probably still be considerably less than an Iphone or a Samsung phone. And you're getting truly the best privacy available. Give it some thought and see if such options might be available for you.

If failure is not your concern but google itself is... then I would just remind you that the world of privacy is a world of poison pills. You have to take some. Take the lesser ones.

the combination of the pixel and GrapheneOS has exceeded my expectations of what I thought was possible in a privacy phone.

ve3jlg

User2288 One of those poison pills is having to buy a pixel phone and supporting google

Or buy a used Pixel and don't. The seller may have died - the estate won't be buying another Pixel, or worse they become an Apple fanboi - and won't be buying a Pixel.

No money to Google!

User2288

Sorry I ended my post early.

Aside from having some of the best hardware, Samsung phones also have some of the best software I have seen. Better than factory Pixels. But the main problem here is, not only is google collecting absolutely EVERY personal detail from you (through Play Services), now so is Samsung (all your txts, all your contact phone numbers, your location, everything you type, every call you make, etc.), non-stop, you can't stop either one of them. Samsung is US gov's b*tch, so is google.

Also don't forget, having a non-google-free phone means not only spying on yourself, but spying on everyone else around you as well.

But if you want to know some phones other than google to look at for privacy, as mentioned you should checkout the device support of some of the other privacy projects. OnePlus phones are apparently ROM friendly and quite good.

EarlOfBurl

I'm new to the custom rom game but what speaks against getting a fairly recent ASUS, Motorala or Xiaomi or OnePlus with LineageOS?

I know that Graphene is prime supreme ( ;) ) but is Lineage so bad in terms of privacy and security that this is completely out of the question?

(Don't hit me! I'm just asking questions ... :D )

abcZ

EarlOfBurl lineageos is basically a heap of crap that is slapped together haphazardly by a bunch of teenagers while on lunch break at high school. They really don't put much thought into security or stability, so its more about added "features" (that are 99.99999% irrelevant), and getting it somewhat working on phones that have been in some way "hacked" to allow them to install custom operating systems.

Graphite

EarlOfBurl

LineageOS, and CyanogenMod before it, was not designed for security and privacy. It does add lots of features that is unavailable by the OEMs. I still use LineageOS for old phones bought on eBay that I don't use everyday and without internet. Not my production daily driver.

Many of the feature of LineageOS have been implemented natively over the years, so much is irrelevant. There are many similar custom "ROMs" out there. Cool for experimentation and if for some reason have a really old phone or cannot get Pixel.

ve3jlg

EarlOfBurl I'm new to the custom rom game but what speaks against getting a fairly recent ASUS, Motorala or Xiaomi or OnePlus with LineageOS?

reddit.com/r/privacy or elsewhere seems like a more likely place to get an answer to non-Graphene/Pixel questions like this.

User2288

EarlOfBurl I know that Graphene is prime supreme ( ;) ) but is Lineage so bad in terms of privacy and security that this is completely out of the question?

(Don't hit me! I'm just asking questions ... :D )

There is certainly merit in using LineageOS. LOS has a wide device compatibility and allows a "google-play-free" platform for people who don't have a pixel and don't want to / cant buy one. The google play package and all its components is the culprit in tracking everyone around the world through wifi mac tracking and their relationship maps and everything they type on the phone. Just not having this one component alone is a massive step forward towards protecting everyone's privacy. Remember the Play substructure doesn't just spy on you, it spies on everyone around you as well, which is a HUGE deal. People around me never signed up for me to give their info to google. Stopping this is way more important than having a personal "secure" phone that doesn't allow direct, focused attacks.

When I researched LOS I came across 4 problems that were of note. I may be remembering wrong but I think they were these:

DNS server is hard coded to google. (google knows every domain you hit and your ip).
The GPS communication server problem (gives away your location all the time. Read GOS docs for details.)
Time and connectivity server checks. (this is maybe minor)
There was one more thing that I can't recall right now. But again it had to do with hard coded elements that still report to google.

/e/ os mitigates these 4 issues as well I believe. But /e/ os has still limited device support, and if you are gonna have to buy a device for /e/ then you might as well just buy a pixel and put graphine on it.

GOS is the most complete mitigation attempt.

So yes, Lineage is certainly better than having google substructure installed on the phone. You'd be doing the world a service.

Blastoidea

“Best” seems to be a word with almost as many definitions as the number of people using it.

brookie229

Asus Zenphone - can unlock bootloader and install custom ROMs. See XDA developers. Granted that Asus has paltry support but that device (9) rocks!