My Parents Switching to Pixel - Arguments for GOS

Wadder

Hi, following the title, my parents have bought new pixel 9a devices and should have them in the next few days.

I'm going to assist in setting the devices up for them, however, I'd like to get them on to GOS.

How have people found it when helping to convince someone close to them to make the jump? What information has been given to convince someone that the GOS is the best solution, when the persons involved don't understand or to some extent care?

We live in the UK and the recent attacks on some retailers have help my case when trying to get my parents to use a password manager and use of randomly generated passwords, but to use this argument for a better operating system falls flat, annoyingly.

Guidance for my argument would be greatly appreciated and apologise for my lengthy post.

Delaney

Wadder What information has been given to convince someone that the GOS is the best solution, when the persons involved don't understand or to some extent care?

If they don't care, then there's nothing you can say that will change their mind.

argante

Wadder No SPAM, no annoying notifications. When you buy a car, you expect to get a car, not a bus full of screaming drunk football fans (if you're from the UK, you know what I mean :)). You decide about your phone, not the marketing department at Samsung or Apple. Your phone belongs to you and serves you. It does not send information about what you do on your phone to others.

teezeh

Wadder my parents

How old and how technically advanced are your parents?

grayway2

Wadder Just let them in peace with stockOS which is enough secure just not as secure as GrapheneOS and not private.

You could instead :

install them the latest software version available (security updates)
Check periodically that they did not install harmful apps
Install them Signal
Explain why it's extremely dangerous to use the same password everywhere
Tell them to never give to anyone banking or email credentials (scammers)

And much more.

Eirikr70

I couldn't convince my daughters, although I offered a Pixel as a renewal to one of them.

ignatius

Eirikr70 If your daughters are American, it likely has more to do with not having iMessage than anything else. Especially if they're under 20 years old.

SovereignCopper

I gave them no information whatsoever, I just put GOS on it and set up the apps they use. One is running without Play Services, one with Play Services in the work profile.

It's a new phone, they expect some kind of learning curve, they won't even have a clue that they're using GOS.

Blastoidea

I think you should stop trying to bully them into GOS.

They can use a password manager, and randomly generated passwords, without introducing what will, to them, be another complexity.

Their choices don’t have to be yours.

schweizer

Blastoidea Their choices don’t have to be yours.

Well usually they come to ask their kids as soon as something unexpected happens. So I have a policy that family members who expect support from me choose a device that I can support easily.

From a point of not so experienced users I see the biggest advantage of GOS that you don't have apps that cannot be uninstalled.

natoal

Blastoidea

I agree, it isn't right to force others or covertly install GOS on someone else's device. Besides, GOS isn't strictly better than PixelOS outside of privacy/security. If they are tech-illiterate and certain apps have compatibility issues, especially banking/government apps, do you expect them to be dependent on you to fix things? These issues deter even tech savvy users (not all, obviously), if your parents can't even set up their phones on their own what makes you think GOS is the right choice? If they use different apps from you that are incompatible, are you going to say it's the apps fault and force them to switch? You could just use a remote control/administrator app if you want such authority and power over your parents. View what they're doing all the time and surreptitiously uninstall apps

TrustExecutor

Don't try to convince them. Just help set it up for them and if they ask what you are doing say there is some necessary steps you need to do to help them stay secure in today's complex IT security landscape.

This is to ensure security in banking apps, protecting family communications, protecting from identity theft etc.

They will hardly recognize they are using GrapheneOS. Set it up with Sandboxed Play and install everything through Play Store so they feel comfortable using it. Don't bother with an advanced security and privacy setup. Gboard as keyboard etc.
Help them setup cloud syncing to a privacy respecting provider if they need and use that kind of service.

Molly for family communications.

chinook

To me the biggest downside now is Wallet not working, so no phone payment. I have my usual payment mode, Revolut card in the Garmin watch, but I would like a backup. Will probably have to carry cash.

Other than that, sudden app incompatibility is a big factor - case in point: authy.

I can decide I want the hassle but will they?

If they refuse you can ultimately limit their exposure to the ads anyway, by installing Rethink DNS or something similar.

Wadder

To all,

I don't and haven't "bullied" or "forced" my parents into the use of any software whether that be an application or operating system, please don't get this confused when I use the term 'argument'.

I used an example of the recent retailer hacks in here the UK as an example where my parents were receptive to the use of a password manager, after explaining the downfalls of repeated passwords. They already use Signal for family and friends chats as oppose to WhatsApp and happy with the app.

My parents are coming to retirement age here in UK and are generally good with technology, but need a hand now and again. Hence why I am helping them with setting up their new devices, I am opposed to installing an OS against their wishes as some have suggested (although I appreciate the advice).

I have explained what I feel are some of the benefits of GOS to my parents. They (like many) feel that they have nothing to hide. This is why I am seeking advice on how to fully explain the software to them in a constructive fashion that's easy for them to understand and value.

Thanks to all who have replied to my post thus far.

natoal

Wadder

Yeah I was referring to those who had suggested such actions, but I should've separated my sentences to make the distinction clearer

ignatius

Now I've heard that cross-platform RCS is available but Google Messages doesn't work on GrapheneOS and also requires a google account so it's unfortunate. A lot of teens use Discord nowadays though but I'm pretty sure it's worse than WhatsApp

Wadder

I should add, that I'm more than happy to leave stockOS on the units, if that is the end result.

Xtreix

ignatius Eirikr70 is french and I don't think nationality has anything to do with it.

natoal RCS in Google Messages worked for me on GrapheneOS, then it stopped working, I'll have to try again, the problem is that RCS is no better than SMS if there's no opportunistic encryption, and as far as I know only Google currently offers it with the Google Messages app which isn't available on iOS.

Eirikr70

ignatius They are French and Italian, and it has to do with not being willing to take the risk to tinker like their father with a self-hosted system, and also with not being able to get rid of Whatsapp.

natoal

Xtreix

I read about a vulnerability in RCS and am not sure if it's been fixed

To put it simply, your texts can be more easily hacked, so your phone is more vulnerable. “RCS is not currently end-to-end encrypted and could risk third parties gaining access to the contents of your messages, including data, photos and personal details,” says Payton. “This also means fraudsters and criminals could find workarounds to access the contents of your messages.”

In addition, the recipients of messages through RCS may be able to receive metadata, or identifier information, such as your IP address or phone number. RCS can also increase the risk of security threats, Payton notes.

On the other hand, messages between iPhone users are automatically encrypted (aka protected) when both people are using iMessage. Similarly, Android users who message other Android users over RCS will also have the benefit of encrypted messages. But at this point in time, when an iPhone user communicates with an Android user over RCS, those messages are not end-to-end encrypted.

https://www.wired.com/story/rcs-texting-security/

This site is much more detailed but I didn't read it since I was tired

Just curious but how would one know whether WhatsApp had a backdoor (considering Meta's nature)? I know it collects metadata but do people have evidence that the E2E prevents WhatsApp from snooping into the chats themselves?

pimp

If you convince them to switch then here are some practical experiences I've had supporting non tech-savvy people with a pixel/gos phone after switching

The default AOSP keyboard app is pretty bad, make sure to install another keyboard app like FlorisBoard, HeliBoard or Futo. I myself also only switched like a couple of weeks ago and the number of typing errors I make dropped significantly. Also the default AOSP dictionaries are not that good, check the experimental ones from the dev of HeliBoard
Comments I've received about pixels with gos is that they look dull/boring because of all the gray tones and even somewhat pale pastel colors readily available under themes. Mainly commented by women coming from Samsung phones who like bright vivid colors like deep fuchsia red (think hdr pictures of flowers/roses etc). They also complain about the screen, samsung phones seem to show physically more livid/hdr colors then the pixels which to them also make f.e. their photo's to appear much better on a samsung then on a pixel (see below)
I've helped one person try separating their apps into different profiles, but that concept seems a bit hard for them to get used to. F.e. they mentioned themselves that they wanted to run Whatsapp in a different profile but then when using the phone they realized that they couldn't easily share photos anymore (afaik you cant share images between profiles/users at least?). So in the end they just installed Whatsapp in the main profile. And then they complained about not receiving messages immediately, which was because of battery optimizations. And after adjusting that they complained about quick battery drain of the pixel. So they always enabled 'battery savings' mode (without asking me) after which they started complaining again about not receiving messages immediately. To me these are all quick fixes and/or easy to accept as a given thing, but for a non-tech savvy user these were/are each 'significant' problems leading to a compounded negative view of the pixel + gos. I also understand that that's probably not really fair to GOS as a lot of these are just general Android things, but I'm just sharing my experiences after helping users switch to GOS ;)
I've heard no issues (yet) though about banking apps in separate users/profiles, that seems to be working ok for everybody. But none of the users I support were using their phone for payments, that might be a difference. The problems with regards to profiles/users are mainly related to social apps and sharing photos/contacts between profiles/users.
This is a pixel not gos thing, but as known & mentioned battery endurance is worse on pixels then om samsungs. Which can be annoying if a user is used to only have to charge their phone once a day but with a pixel you already have to charge it during the day when using it often
Im always enabling that wifi/bluetooth turns off automatically to prevent tracking in shopping mails etc on gos phones I install, but that also takes a while for users to get used to. So in the first month(s), they often complain about blowing through their internet phone plan quickly because they forgot to enable wifi when returning home. So make sure to explain that to them well in advance before switching

In general GOS requires a bit more in-depth knowledge if you wanna use all the available security/privacy related options, which can be overwhelming at first and lead to a compounded dissatisfying feeling. I've had one person already mentioning they wanted to switch back to Samsung, f.e. because they weren't happy with the photo quality on their P9P compared to their 5y old samsung. Which is ofc ridiculous, the photos on the P9P are absolutely better but as said they just do not always look better when viewing/comparing them on the pixel's screen itself (the whole concept that not every computer/phone screen is the same is/was foreign to them).

And to answer your question, I often convinced them to switch by explaining that with GOS they are themselves completely in control about which app is installed on their phone, i.e. they themselves are the boss on their phone and not the manufacturer. Also its not like on Samsung that you get 10s of bloatware apps that you cannot (easily) remove. Also they liked the idea about not being tracked that easily by any big tech company.