Element and Matrix and Google "rootkit"

K8y

Hello,
Can anyone explain in basic terms why Element is not an app? And what exactly is Matrix in laypersons terms? Is it more secure because it's not an app?

Secondly there's this insight from someone that claims Google play is a rootkit. Is that true? What is a rootkit and is it stopped by Graphene?

"Kryptomeister
•
4y ago
I'd say use Matrix (element) over Signal, not just because Element is decentralised but because Signal (at least the version on the play store) requires Google play services to work. We all know Google play services is essentially a rootkit on your phone. Element does not require Google play services. Element is also on F-droid, Signal is not."

https://www.reddit.com/r/privacytoolsIO/comments/jqblhg/opinions_on_signal_vs_element_matrixorg/?rdt=51771

de0u

K8y Can anyone explain in basic terms why Element is not an app?

Well, an app does exist: https://element.io/app-for-productivity

K8y Secondly there's this insight from someone that claims Google play is a rootkit.

I wouldn't say that "We all know that _____" rises to the level of "insight". I would call that an unsubstantiated claim, which is sort of the opposite of insight.

K8y Is that true?

Not by a technical definition.

K8y What is a rootkit and is it stopped by Graphene?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rootkit

Some people may observe that on most Android devices Google Play has elevated privileges (true) and believe all Google code is malware (no, but it is difficult to argue with what is essentially a religious belief for some), and refer figuratively to Google Play as a rootkit. But security professionals wouldn't.

GrapheneOS does include a variety of techniques designed to combat actual rootkits: https://grapheneos.org/features#exploit-protection

There's a lot of excellent material on the GrapheneOS web site.

ryrona

K8y Can anyone explain in basic terms why Element is not an app? And what exactly is Matrix in laypersons terms? Is it more secure because it's not an app?

Element is an app.

Matrix is the protocol the Element app is using. By using a standardized protocol, instead of its own, Element can send messages to and receive messages from users running any app that implements the Matrix protocol.

K8y Secondly there's this insight from someone that claims Google play is a rootkit. Is that true? What is a rootkit and is it stopped by Graphene?

Google Play Services is properly sandboxed on GrapheneOS. On other Android phones it runs as a highly privileged service, which makes many uneasy. Google doesn't have a good track record for taking user privacy seriously. But this should be much less of a concern on GrapheneOS.

If you want to run Signal without having to have Google Play Services installed at all, there is an alternative client called Molly-FOSS. Or so I heard, I never used Signal myself.

raccoondad

K8y

"Can anyone explain in basic terms why Element is not an app?"

Its an app, it also has a web/desktop client

"And what exactly is Matrix in laypersons terms"

Protocol (https://matrix.org/)

"Is it more secure because it's not an app?"

No, because it is an app

"not just because Element is decentralised but because Signal (at least the version on the play store) requires Google play services to work."

No?

"We all know Google play services is essentially a rootkit on your phone."

No*

"Element does not require Google play services. Element is also on F-droid"

True

"Signal is not"

No-ish (https://signal.org/android/apk/)

TL:DR Don't take advice from reddit

missing-root

What was I just reading...

fid02

missing-root What was I just reading...

A very useful reply by de0u.

missing-root

fid02 lol that for sure