GrapheneOS Team Recommend Most Private/Anonymous Search Engine?

DeletedUser84

There's DuckDuckGo which comes as default in both Vanadium and the Tor Browser.
Then there's also Brave Search, as well as Startpage, but I assume those are both a little shady.

There is also SearXNG, which is great, but now you're trusting a stranger who doesn't have to adhere to a privacy policy or legal obligation to conduct your search queries.
You could host your own SearXNG, but if you're the only one using it, that's no good either.

So what is the team's opinion on the most private/anonymous search engine?
And if anyone else has an opinion or input, feel free to share.

DeletedUser41

DeletedUser84 Brave Search is not the shady one. Brave Search is the search engine for privacy and uncensored results.

DuckDuckGo uses Bing for the search results. Whereas, Brave Search indexes their own results with zero censorship unlike DuckDuckGo which has the censorship of Bing and also they censor extra results as well. Meaning DuckDuckGo has the censorship of Bing x2. Additionally, when DuckDuckGo initially released their own browser Microsoft trackers weren't blocked due to their shadeness. Use Brave Search if you do not want to use a shady Search Engine.

Eirikr70

DeletedUser84 There is also SearXNG, which is great, but now you're trusting a stranger who doesn't have to adhere to a privacy policy or legal obligation to conduct your search queries.

You might be willing to look at the privacy policy imposed by the SearXNG team when trying to make an instance publicly available : open an issue to add an instance and you will see the checkboxes. I have tried to make mine available and couldn't technically reach the requested standard to fulfill the controls (I'll try again ;)).

DeletedUser87

I actually feel that DDG is the shady option here. Mainly due to their dependency on Microsoft's Bing (which has caused trouble with search results itself) and also caused conflict of interest when it was revealed, that they didn't block Microsoft trackers. The other, more worrying fact, is that they started downranking (a.k.a. censoring) search results from Russian websites that they determined to be misinformation. And while that might all sound great to you, I don't like any censorship at all. I will look at the facts from all sources and come to a sensible conclusion myself. If I wanted a censoring search engine, I would just use Google - they're the best in that field. Last downside for me: Bing search results are trashy; and that goes for DuckDuckGo as well.
I exclusively run Brave Search on all of my devices and have been pretty satisfied. The only other search engine I would recommend over Brave would be Kagi. Note that Kagi is a paid service though.

DeletedUser84

DeletedUser87 Note that Brave is also an AI and advertising company at the core, which is a lot more sketchy in my opinion. They've had a lot more controversy than DDG. Startpage is also owned by an advertising company and do some sus things.

If you think Kagi is a good option, then you clearly haven't looked into them. They are in my opinion the worst option out there for privacy, and they'll also take your money while you're at it 😂

raccoondad

DeletedUser87 "I don't like any censorship at all."

Removing misinformation isn't censorship, its the job and point of a search engine.

The 3rd party request stuff is pretty bad but it seems to only apply to the browser itself and IDK why anyone would use that. I think blocking requests from trackers is a bad idea anyways, compared to obfuscating client data (i.e Tor Browser), which is a better method than having a giant list of bad domains to block (better suited for ad blockers and related functions).

DDG will always be in my heart because it's the only search engine to specifically support Tor. By 'always in my heart' I mean Stockholm syndrome.

My recommendation? Find a good browser that obfuscates client data (I have zero clue if the android version of Tor Browser does this to the extent the desktop version does), use a VPN/Tor if you want to hide your IP, use whatever search engine meets your fancy.

DeletedUser87

DeletedUser84 They've had a lot more controversy than DDG

Which is?

DeletedUser84

This is just a bit of what you can find on Kagi:

https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/11821-search-engines-for-privacy-and-anonymity/9

zzz

Blastoidea DeletedUser87

This was my take from a while ago, already linked here by DeletedUser84:
https://discuss.grapheneos.org/d/11821-search-engines-for-privacy-and-anonymity/9
The core source is this blog post:
https://d-shoot.net/kagi.html

I do appreciate Kagi's core features.
But for me, the opinions about privacy expressed by Kagi's CEO on Discord are very concerning.

DeletedUser84

DeletedUser87 Do I even need to link any sources lol? I'm pretty sure the things they've done are quite well known in the privacy community, and that's why many have a distaste for them.

Blastoidea

DeletedUser84

For those of us who may be profoundly ignorant, would you briefly list just a few?

Not all are as well informed as you.

DeletedUser87

DeletedUser84 has it something to do with the affiliate links and BAT stuff? If yes, I couldn't care less about some crypto bros crying in their basement. I disabled all the crypto crap for good and have no issues at all. Although, that relates to the Brave Browser, not the search engine, so I'm still waiting.

DeletedUser84

DeletedUser87 There have been countless controversies from them. As a company, this reflects along all of their products/services, as well as the trust of said products/services.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not telling you not use them, but this is just my take. I'm open to any suggestions though.

DeletedUser87

DeletedUser84 countless controversies

and you couldn't even name one. At this point I will just assume that you are either trolling or are affiliated with DDG in some way, in which case that's another controversy to add to their list.

router99

DeletedUser84 sources, now

DeletedUser84

DeletedUser87 lol I'm not affiliated with DuckDuckGo. I'm just trying to find out what the GOS team recommend as the most private search engine.

DeletedUser84

router99 they are available through a simple search, I'm not talking about controversies with Brave Search. I was just saying that some of the stuff they have done could reflect on their search engine.

akc3n

DeletedUser84 I'm just trying to find out what the GOS team recommend as the most private search engine.

We generally don't make recommendations. It's up to the end user. Perhaps this article may help you out:
https://seirdy.one/posts/2021/03/10/search-engines-with-own-indexes/

DeletedUser84

akc3n thanks for that!

If you don't mind me asking, what search engine do you use/recommend?

other8026

The debate is getting a little too heated I think.

Please see this post by akc3n:

akc3n We generally don't make recommendations. It's up to the end user. Perhaps this article may help you out:
https://seirdy.one/posts/2021/03/10/search-engines-with-own-indexes/

Edit: I see two big disagreements here. One is about which search engine is shadier, and the other is a debate about whether removing "misinformation" is censorship.

For the first, I'd suggest doing your own research and you can come to your own conclusion. Or try different search engines and pick the one that works best for you personally.

For the second, I'm afraid it's too far off topic for us. Ultimately, I think it boils down to one's own opinions on the matter, and the argument will never end. So, locking the discussion here seems best to me.

yore

raccoondad Removing misinformation isn't censorship, its the job and point of a search engine.

Here's the problem I see: Who gets to deem what is misinformation and what isn't?

I prefer to have a search engine that provides me with all relevant sources rather than what it deems is correct or not (a policy we have no transparency over), rather than having results omitted. And while I believe certain sites should not be allowed due to their nature/content, I don't want a search engine to decide what I should or shouldn't see based on what it believes is misinformation.

And it is for this reason I think most search engines today are inherently flawed. I think the best solution is to use a metasearch engine like SearXNG on a trusted host that allows the user to see results from multiple search engines rather than relying on a central authority. It isn't perfect by any means but it's the next best thing we've got.

router99

raccoondad Removing misinformation isn't censorship, its the job and point of a search engin

Really?

mrket

raccoondad

raccoondad DDG will always be in my heart because it's the only search engine to specifically support Tor.

Brave Search and Startpage both have an official onion site too.

There are also many instances of metasearch engines on onion sites (I personally use a 4get instance, works much better than SearX IMO).

Exhort14

yore I prefer to have a search engine that provides me with all relevant sources rather than what it deems is correct or not (a policy we have no transparency over), rather than having results omitted.

[removed - example of misinformation that may cause further discussion of politics/conspiracy-related topics]

I have a problem with removing results that are true, but misinformation (which we used to call "lies") should get pulled.

In response to OPs question, I think DDG is Vanadium's default engine, IIRC. That's probably as close to a recommendation as you'll get.

raccoondad

router99 The job of a search engine is to:

Index webpages using spiders

Search via query and rank websites top to bottom of the results

This is the function of a search engine, yes. They would not have any purpose otherwise

router99

raccoondad
I was hoping you would address the removing "misinformation" part. Also, who is the arbiter of what is or is not misinformation?