SIM or no SIM

DeletedUser68

I've been considering moving my SIM card from my old iPhone to my new GrapheneOS device, but I'm unsure if this is the best choice for me. As a low-threat-model user who avoids illegal activities online, I believe using my old SIM probably won't matter much. However, I'd appreciate hearing different viewpoints since I've had my Pixel for a while now and still haven't done it. The phone number linked to the SIM has been mine for a long time and has been owned by various different carriers (EU). I've recently started taking steps to keep my online activity private and secure. For instance, I became a Proton Unlimited member and only connect to the internet on important personal devices using ProtonVPN through Securecore servers with NetShield for extra security and have enabled Always-On VPN + Killswitch. My concerns include whether my online activities remain private and secure when using both a VPN and cellular data, how much privacy I might forfeit if I decide to use my old SIM, if an E-SIM would be more private and secure, and whether these considerations are even relevant given my low-threat model? It all feels very overkill to me, but on the other hand, I keep finding out more and more about how agencies and corporations collect data on the masses, and if they ever get interested in you specifically, they can easily find out what you're doing, who you are, and where you've been. Again, low threat model user, probably don't need to think about this that much but wanted to ask anyway before making the decision.

tango

DeletedUser68

It all comes down to how private you want to be and convenience vs some inconvenience. Its well known most or all carriers are collecting plenty of data, which includes your approximate location (within 500 metres approximately) if using a sim card you cannot do anything about that otherwise you would have no signal to use your phone. As Evalda said there is the wifi/ethernet only option but thats where inconvenience comes in as you are limited to where you can use that option. If you can do that its certainly the best option regarding privacy. You are on the right track regarding your vpn etc and already saving lots of privacy data compared to others who are unaware. I would recommend you only install apps you really need and only give them the minimum permissions they need to function. The less you have the less of your data can be scraped up.

DeletedUser115

The only practical difference between an eSIM and a physical SIM is that the former can't be removed from a device and put into another phone if the original device got stolen (and no SIM PIN was used). Other than that, there is not much difference between the two.

On whether to use any SIM card or not at all depends on if you need cellular connection. Most regular uses need it, but if you can live with Wi-Fi or Ethernet connection only, there are benefits of never inserting a SIM into the phone.

Bullion

DeletedUser115

If you have an E sim card, if your phone is taken by the LE can they tell what sim card you have in your phone if your phone has rest via autoboot

DeletedUser68

tango

tango Its well known most or all carriers are collecting plenty of data, which includes your approximate location (within 500 meters approximately) if using a sim card. you cannot do anything about that.

I know if my GOS phone isn't in airplane mode or in a Faraday bag it will keep pinging cell towers and have accepted that carriers will know my approximate location in those cases. I'm just wondering if they can see what I'm doing on my phone besides the fact that they can see I'm connected to a VPN and where i approximately am.

tango As Evalda said there is the WiFi/Ethernet only option but that's where inconvenience comes in as you are limited to where you can use that option.

I thought about buying a mobile-hotspot and putting my old sim in there but i don't know if they can receive and display SMS messages for things like verification with apps or services and if their even secure and private + their another item to carry. Although if there was a mobile-hotspot small enough with those features i would definitely consider it.

tango I would recommend you only install apps you really need and only give them the minimum permissions they need to function.

Already doing that :D

tango

DeletedUser68

I wouldnt waste any money on faraday bags if i were you, airplane mode in GOS is all you really need. All they can see is that your using an encrypted connection, but obviously with sim card in anything like calls/texts and location are all in their hands!

Its up to you but personally i wouldnt bother with a mobile hotspot. It means a lot more inconvenience trying to keep it secure etc.

DeletedUser68

tango All they can see is that your using an encrypted connection, but obviously with sim card in anything like calls/texts and location are all in their hands!

I'm going to assume you're referring to communicating over cellular networks and through SMS. However, I plan to minimize having to use those for communication as much as possible. Instead, I'll try to primarily use WhatsApp or, even better, Signal for messaging and calls. They operate over the internet/WiFi, meaning carriers cannot see what I'm doing / talking about when I'm connected via a VPN. Please correct me if I've misunderstood what you've said or if any of my statements are incorrect.

tango

DeletedUser68

Sorry if i wasnt clear enough. Yes over cellular network i meant using calls/sms is insecure and vpn does nothing for that. However over the internet the vpn will prevent your carrier from tracking your browsing history etc as all they will see is that you are using an encrypted connection. They will know your using a vpn but thats it.

If you can use Signal or Molly (Molly is a modified Signal in case you didnt know and is recommended on here) that would again save you giving away more data compared to using Whatsapp who will extract all your metadata and whatever else they can. Lots of people probably need Whatsapp though with its huge userbase. You can always run Signal/Molly on your main user and use Whatsapp on a separate profile with no other apps which helps a bit, better still with a second number. That is where convenience or inconvenience comes in. Its really up to you how far you want to go with privacy. My advice would be to keep the right balance and not go too extreme as it sounds you dont need too.

DeletedUser68

tango Sorry if i wasn't clear enough.

No problem i knew what you were insinuating but for someone going through this discussion it might not be clear. Therefore, i tried to clear it up.

tango Molly is a modified Signal in case you didn't know and is recommended on here

I do know about Molly but haven't look into it yet (might do so later).

tango You can always run Signal/Molly on your main user and use Whatsapp on a separate profile with no other apps

I was thinking about making a second profile for apps that aren't open source or which i don't trust but, I've concluded that for now, I'm just going to use the owner profile for everything and rely on GOS sandboxing for the privacy and security.

DeletedUser115

Bullion Good point, it's important to be aware of that. A physical SIM can obviously be identified too in that scenario.

DeletedUser68

I have decided to put it in. I now see a setting which allows me to turn of the sim in the phone does this do anything for privacy and security or is this just so i can save data and stop receiving sms?

tango

DeletedUser68

When switched off its basically like just having a phone without a sim card. It will still ping cell towers though unless you activate airplane mode. For more privacy its best to use wifi in airplane mode when you have access to it.

DeletedUser68

tango Thanks for explaining I'll keep it in mind

Anti2030

Hello, on my pixel with grapheneos, is it advisable to use airplane mode with WiFi? Is using a physical SIM card recommended? What would be the most feasible recommendation for a medium-high threat level? thank you

de0u

Anti2030 What would be the most feasible recommendation for a medium-high threat level?

Suggestion: a threat level may be difficult to turn into feasible actions; a threat model may be more useful. It's not feasible to protect everything from everybody, or even to protect a "medium-high" amount of everything from a "medium-high" fraction of unidentified potential attackers. Using a cellular carrier poses certain risks (e.g., every cellular network is inherently a tracking network), but if those risks aren't particularly relevant to you in particular then maybe using a cellular carrier is fine.

Anti2030

de0u I understand your position, I have already read that article. The question would be, what is the most effective way to avoid connected tracking whether by Wi-Fi or data. What can the connection via Wi-Fi or SIM card provide more information?

de0u

Anti2030 The question would be, what is the most effective way to avoid connected tracking whether by Wi-Fi or data.

Tracking by whom? If, hypothetically, one were to use only Wi-Fi, with a VPN, then the VPN provider could over time collect the IP addresses of the Wi-Fi access points used to connect to the VPN servers, and the IP addresses are pretty mappable to geographic locations. Using the Internet sort of means to choosing who gets to track which activities. There isn't really a knob with "less tracking" at one end and "more tracking" at the other that can be twisted to the left.

Cm4Me

Hi, kinda late, but also debating on this myself...

I don't have a "high threat level" perse but one never knows what could potentially be used against them given the "perfect storm" set of circumstances in life...
My reasoning for WANTING to have my SIM on my GOS phone is bc I feel that EVERY msg I get, every appt confirmation, every OTP goes through virtually EVERY EYE on my current device, Z Fold 6, so, my carrier, AT&T, Google, Samsung, MS, FB, & ALL apps I CANT reject permissions on or disable, etc, ALLLLL get access to my EVERY move, every text from my bank, pharmacy, etc, etc.... So, in THAT situation, my carrier seeing my texts, is inevitable, UNLESS, there's some other way to forgo all that or move them all to email over VPN (I keep seeing over cellular, is that important or is over WiFi OK)?
I'm a very tech ILLITERATE person, so idk if there's other options seen sites that offer temp numbers for otps, etc, but for me, NOT having MULTIPLE ENTITIES getting ALL my info ALL the time is gratifying to me, unlikely I'll get anonymity, nor do I need it...
But again, the idea that ONLY my carrier will get those (although ik they share like crazy too, just not sure to what extent)?
Or do I have another option to get said codes & push updates .to know when my money is debited, appt reminders, etc,... Perhaps switching all to email only, but some only use phone number.... So I'll look into that...
I've also found that although i've changed many of my email address to my new proton mail, they CONTINUE to send to gmail despite changing them & REMOVING gmail from my accts, so follow up calls to have them to completely remove are in order...
I've seen websites that offer generic numbers for otp code but THATS too much for me...
I just download GOS & not tech savvy so I'm very overwhelmed with it all...
I just want the privacy GOS offers & since I'm not committing any cyber or physical crimes or other questionable behavior I'm not that worried about it, just would like NOT to give SO MANY access to my MOST personal info is a HUGE plus to me, am I wrong for thinking that is the case? Isn't THAT the main attraction of GOS? But after writing this maybe just changing all to email is my best option, but still every single SMS, etc, going to all above entities & more gives me more reason to WANT my Sim on my GOS pixel? Any insight?