Upward Swipes and Taped Cameras

yakabb

I still cover my camera with tape out of fear of zero day exploits, which are less likely in Graphene OS.

The user interface makes this very hard because the upward swipes have to almost reach all the way up to the camera. I think this UI choice originally from Google was done to make it harder for people to cover cameras with tape.

I would like it if there were an option so upward swipes only need to be 75% of what is needed normally to activate the same feature so that this is no longer a problem.

Murcielago

yakabb

Apart from the status bar, which you use to swipe down from the height of the camera, I can't think of any gestures that would be affected by your setup. Please help me out as i can't figure out: When do you have to swipe up to the camera?

Just to make sure - you know the option to deactivate the camera and microphone via toggle, right?

Placing the tiles "mic access" and "camera access in the Quick Tiles, deactivating them permanently and only activating them when required is a setup that I've often come across here in the forum.

In an interview, a GrapheneOS developer answers the interviewer's question of what additional security is offered by hardware switches (covering your camera counts as a hardware switch, I would guess) that could be installed by third-party companies compared to deactivation of the camera and microphone via software toggles, which seems to be deeply rooted in the system (apps cannot simply override your settings).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkQ_OCzuLNg

You might find this info helpful, unfortunately I can't remember exactly when the topic is brought up - I would guess it's in the last third of the interview.

yoyoma

yakabb wow i thought i was the only one who still put tape over my cameras, i do it for my mic too. I guess i just got so used to doing it on my old iphone 13 ios. I taped those ones black, and noise cancelling foam where the speakers/mic are.
Now my question is do you still tape your cameras front and rear and block mics out too?
I took the tape off my back camera, not the front. Havent tried to block off mic on my grapheneOS phone.
I was watching grapheneOS for 2 years before finally being able to snag a pixel 7 pro (last pixel with phyiscal sim). Now realizing i may should have just gone 8 and up for MTE.
So my qustion to more gOS users, do you still tape your cameras front and rear, and muffle your physical speakers mics on your devices? Or am i just crazy?

yoyoma

yakabb do you have one hand mode on? I have a 7pro gOS and a small piece of electrical tape over the front cam and it doesnt mess up the touch function of the phone. adaptive brightness yes, but swiping nope.

r134a

yoyoma i tape the screen aswell

thmf

yoyoma do you still tape your cameras front and rear

Yes, with iPhones, Macs, Linux and Windows PCs, but not with GrapheneOS devices.

yoyoma block mics out too?

Same here to different extent. Depends on threat model. I trust GrapheneOS toggles and switches.

VMs don't get this devices unless necessary.

stupidcreature

yoyoma Taping mics is absolutely useless. For starters, if you are afraid of an adversary using mics consider that dynamics can also be used to record audio. And even so, even if you tape up the mics or dynamics (which is just gonna distort audio a lot) or even go for the novaphone where they are outright removed then the problem is still that gyroscopes and accelerators can be feasibly used to record audio as well. If you somehow manage to remove them, then sure go ahead, except it won't be a particularily useful phone unless you only plan to use it just for like reading stuff.

In cybersec a very important concept is the concept of trusted and untrusted parties. Of course minimising trusted parties is important but at some point you gotta trust the people who build and ship the phones and the Graphene devs at the very least. Weighing your priorities is a part of what makes it so hard, so at some point you need to consider the positives of no one ever potentially conducting an attack the chance of which is highly unlikely at best vs having a usable device. I hope you can find a solution that suits you.

r134a

I just ducktape the whole screen.

Sorry, i was joking with that comment, couldn't resist...
Though i understand why one would go these lenghts, at certain threat levels.

yoyoma

r134a hahahha i was like this fools wild
yea i just have a small electrical tape square over the camera, i think it screws with adaptive brightness tho.
Is having an 8 and up with MTE that much more secure than 7's and below that dont have mte?

yoyoma

thmf can you elaborate on vm's dont get this unless necessary?

yoyoma

my threat model is i just wanted no monopolistic company telling me what i can and cant do with the phone i own outright. Now they i have done my due dillgence on gOS, i was the greatest thing that ever happened to m.
threat model:
dont want all my metadat out there
no illegal listnening by law enforcement
this who;e thing is absoulutely bonkers, that you have to go through this much trouble to have a phone that you are in full control over and own outright.
same fro the ring camera idiots, they sold out to law enforcment like 3 years ago. The irony of pyaing to put survelliance on your house with factial recognition is nuts. You are essentially eating the costs of a home cctv, that is actually law enforcemts cctv but it streams to their computers and has algos that search your race. license play scanners. I feel like im living in the twilight qonel. cheers

thmf

yoyoma Sure. Suppose you're on a Mac and using VMware Fusion. When you create a VM you'll have a sound card and a camera devices added to the VM by default. I'd remove them unless they are necessary. This way your mic and camera can't be used if the VM is compromised.

yoyoma

stupidcreature Yes ive read deep into the ways that they can use other hardware to record or fingerprint users.
Ive been speaking with grok3 regarding grapheneos, ive been using mine as owner profile with everything i need. Unlike anarsec's guide that i wanted to use. But now speaking to grok, ive been explained that keeping gsf in the google profile, then have default profile is trusted apps with no gsf. Then the owner app is just bare grapheneos. After speaking with uncle elon's grok. It seems that the smartest way is to not download all apps in the owner profile then push them to the others. Grok said from many sources including our discussion forums, that it is much more private and safer if i install my google apps, in my 3rd profile google. Then same for my 2nd profile default which would be all gos stuff pluss molly newpipe and maybe some other open source or obtanium sourced apps. Then the owner profile which should stay bare. So my approach now that i have everything dlwned and used on my owner profile.
The safest way would be to reset the phone. then make new everything for each profile, Im kinda lost as you can tell. My threat model is i dont want google or apple collecting tons of data on me. Is it worth me going back through my gorgeous 7progOS and resetting it, then making the second profile, all with new emails etc. then 3rd google wtih all new email's phone numbers etc.

stupidcreature

yoyoma I'm going to be honest if you trust anything made by Elon Musk, especially his LLM that is kind of on you. I am not going to respond to suggestions made by an LLM because they are flawed in obvious ways and cannot be trusted.