Can an ISP see that I am using Graphene?

pm97

Are ISP's able to see that a user is using Graphene?

de0u

pm97 Are ISP's able to see that a user is using Graphene?

In the default configuration after an install, yes. See: https://grapheneos.org/faq#default-connections

It is possible to reconfigure, likely including using a VPN.

GrapheneOS

pm97 As @Titan_M2 explained, use a VPN and set connectivity checks to Standard or Disabled, no. Standard is better for blending in as a regular Android device.

W1zardK1ng

Yes, when you search for the os/apps updates without a vpn.
I dont know if there are any other ways for them to detect it.

pm97

de0u
Thanks for reply. I wasn't thinking so much about a targeted attack and ISP examining connections, but more about if Graphene announces itself to the ISP as "I am a Graphene device" rather than announcing "I am an Android device."

de0u

pm97 I [was thinking] more about if Graphene announces itself to the ISP as "I am a Graphene device" rather than announcing "I am an Android device."

Declaring the name of the OS a device is running is not a necessary step for the device to connect to the Internet. If your home network's DHCP is done by your ISP's modem, your ISP will capture the DHCP "vendor class" information if/when provided by your devices. I just did a packet trace and my GrapheneOS device's DHCP client identified itself as "android-dhcp-14".

But I think that the narrow question may not be the most-relevant one. I believe it is not unknown for ISPs to harvest (and sell!) data about customer interests from DNS lookups, for customers who use their DNS servers [Vice 2021, cites U.S. FTC 2021]. I don't know whether or not ISPs do similar analysis based on which IP addresses customer devices connect to, but why not? As people start using encrypted DNS and ECH, ISPs will increasingly "need" to infer customer interests from IP addresses (for customers who don't use VPNs).

PMUSR

de0u What DNS server service would you recommend that is most secure and private? Never used any alternatives than my own ISP. Any other suggestion for more privacy and security? Do I need it if I use VPN?

Titan_M2

If you want to hide the fact that you use GrapheneOS, you need to route everything through a VPN and change connectivity check to Google default.

Xtreix

PMUSR Changing DNS doesn't do much.

https://www.privacyguides.org/en/advanced/dns-overview/#should-i-use-encrypted-dns

https://www.privacyguides.org/en/dns/

https://grapheneos.org/faq#private-dns-other

If you use a trusted VPN and it uses its own DNS resolver, use it, you'll only stand out from the crowd if you use another DNS, if you don't use a VPN, you probably shouldn't do anything unless you have a compelling reason to.