Discussion and Ideas about preinstalled Apps

missing-root

Hi, I want to discuss default App Experience, Reasoning and some Ideas.

The UX of GrapheneOS is not great. I liked VeronicaExplains take "if you make if so easy to install, please provide at least some way to install apps".

Really, the WebUI installer is great, but afterwards... some experience and thoughts:

Old, seemingly unmaintained apps

I am not sure how maintained those Apps are, as it seems you are putting some work in fixing bugs. But afaik Google abandoned them, so they are years outdated.

SMS/MMS App

Shows an "outdated runtime" warning at the user
apart from that "just works"

Alternatives:

Deku SMS:

Supports AES encrypted SMS (in some regions internet may still be missing and SMS are needed)
is well maintained

Connect You

mix between contacts and SMS. Problem here: no tag support (needed for Contact scopes)
actively maintained, updated UI
one app for 2 things

Simplemobiletools SMS

currently difficult situation, probably soon Fossify
very minimal, based on AOSP afaik
good UI, recently maintained

So while I can understand the take "SMS sucks and should not be seen as secure" (Signal dropped it, another app is deprecated) but better have encryption than have none?

Fossify SMS is probably the best candidate.

Gallery

lacks any editing
looks horrible
is probably also very old?

Alternatives:

Fossify Gallery

forked from AOSP Gallery some time
actively maintained and ZippoApps free
no internet access
editing functionalities, among a lot more

Aves Libre

looks great
many cool features that are not needed
no editing support
actively maintaines
privacy friendly, but internet Access for crash reports on Crashlytics

I suppose the best candidate would be Fossify Gallery then.

Clock

The current one

is blue ?
lacks volume/off button control
has a quicksettings shortcut
works well

Alternatives are complicated, as they are all incomplete it seems

New Clock

has a lot of features
based on AOSP it seems
lacks quicksettings toggle
darkmode, button control, lockscreen overlay,...

Clock You

lacks button control

Simple Clock

hopefully soon Fossify
forked from AOSP afaik, so newer but reliable

Keyboard

In my experience the AOSP keyboard is not good.

very old
no resizing possible
no clipboard actions
no gesture swipe stuff

It can be really okay, but the lack of resizing makes it unusable for me.

Floris Board

great customizability
no autocorrection
internal clipboard that can be isolated, securing clipboard access
thus having two ways to "copy" (system dialog or keyboard button) may be confusing
currently unmaintained

OpenBoard

more minimal
well maintained
fork of AOSP keyboard I think
gesture support (somehow)
multiple layouts
autocorrection with fine grained settings

Simple Keyboard

possible Fossify
havent tested it, probably AOSP fork

So while I love the security and privacy of Floriaboards internal clipboard, it may be confusing, bloated and is currently unmaintained. I think OpenBoard would be a great alternative that does an actually good job.

PDF Viewer

I know about the debates with the hardening in the viewer.

MJPDF would offer some usability improvements like

search
dark mode
copy text
view links, chapters
fullscreen mode

Telephone / Dialer

It just works and it not outdated. Also it allows many settings otherwise unavailable.

Welefon

very minimal
well maintained
not very neutral

Simple Dialer

maybe soon Fossify
maybe an alternative

So no clear decision here. Maybe Welefon makes sense though.

Calculator

looks pretty bad
simply a calculator

I would just leave it out. Alternatives:

Mint Calculator

conversions but no network permission
looks well

Many more options, but Mint Calculator looks best.

Considerations

I know GrapheneOS is based off AOSP and not LineageOS, but I wonder if projects like LineageOS, DivestOS, /e/OS etc. couldnt collaborate more with GrapheneOS.

They sometimes have their own apps, which may be good alternatives. For some reason no fork of GrapheneOS exists.

I also assume the AOSP Apps are very reliable, minimal and secure. I get that adding "random apps" to the core OS would increase Maintenance.

Also I know that some apps with shitty UX like the file manager are needed for Portal access.

I am wondering though: why have system apps at all? Most apps could run perfectly well as user apps. If they are outdated AOSP apps, why not let users install their own? Giving random apps system privileges may be unwanted.

As the Pixels are often very overpowered with storage, putting apps in the system partition to save that space is not needed.

Something in me would like to use that space anyways, but yeah.

de0u

missing-root It is indeed the case that a fresh GrapheneOS installation lacks many apps that many people might want, and also does not ship with an app store that endorses third-party apps.

That situation does not appear to have a simple and robust solution, so the robust thing to do may be nothing.

One issue mentioned by the GrapheneOS team is that if a third-party app (an app store or anything else) were shipped with GrapheneOS then a later decision to stop shipping the app would cause turmoil for many users who would suddenly be unable to access that app's data.
Meanwhile, apps come and go -- not just in the sense of existence/maintenance, but also in terms of ownership and trustworthiness.

All in all, the fact that some calculator app is currently more pleasant than the AOSP calculator does not imply that the GrapheneOS project should start shipping it, or endorsing it by adding it to the GrapheneOS "Apps" app.

Meanwhile, there is dramatic variance in how people want to use GrapheneOS. Some use the owner profile, install Google Play and Google apps, and use eSIMs and Android Auto. Others disable the cellular modem and rely solely on Wi-Fi to a portable router with a data-only SIM. It's not clear that such a community could come to consensus on an app portfolio or even an app store.

That said... perhaps your suggestions for an app portfolio match the desires of a substantial user community -- if so, a GrapheneOS fork shipping those apps might become popular.

akc3n

missing-root Old, seemingly unmaintained apps
I am not sure how maintained those Apps are, as it seems you are putting some work in fixing bugs. But afaik Google abandoned them, so they are years outdated.

Explained in our community wiki here:
https://hub.libranet.de/wiki/graphene-os/wiki/Apps#Pre_installed_apps

missing-root

Yes agreed that system app preinstallation is a problem.

So having a list of currently recommended apps, and some way to install appstores, would improve UX but users would choose on their own.

The Apps store is pretty useless currently, even though it works well. Accrescent has some more apps now, but F-Droid fixed their builds afaik, and F-Droid Basic is a modern client. And simply having 10 apps available doesnt make it secure, as people will get their Apps from other sources then.

I know people that blindly trust Github releases, and yes in theory (if you check Signatures on first install using a non-Android device, woow UX) that can be secure. But really no.

5rlyn

I'm still early in my GrapheneOS journey, but one of the pluses of the default Messaging app is that it seems to have the least amount of failures with sending MMS compared to something like QKSMS

missing-root

5rlyn QKSMS (original) is not developed anymore.

There is Quik now but they try to recreate Google Messages or something, not a good default SMS app I think.

DeletedUser24

GrapheneOS couldn't replace the original apps with those frequently mentioned for licensing reasons:

https://grapheneos.org/faq#bundled-apps

In some cases, licensing is also an issue. GrapheneOS is permissively licensed and is usable for building devices with an immutable root of trust. GPLv3 is deliberately incompatible with these kinds of locked down devices, unlike GPLv2 code such as the Linux kernel. This means GrapheneOS can't include GPLv3 code without forbidding use cases we want to support. GPLv3 is no problem for our own usage, but we don't want to forbid using GrapheneOS as a replacement for the Android Open Source Project in locked down devices.

And florisboard is still in active development.
Keyboards and clocks also need to support direct boot, so that they work after a reboot. I'm not sure most have such support. Florisboard does.

de0u

Tivoization: GPLv2 allows for "Tivoization," meaning hardware devices can use the software without providing users the ability to modify and run their modified versions on the device. GPLv3 addresses this by requiring the device to allow installation of modified software.

Patent Termination: GPLv3 includes a provision that terminates patent licenses if someone initiates patent litigation against the software. GPLv2 lacks this feature, offering more flexibility regarding patent issues.

Additional Permissions: GPLv2 allows the distributor to add their own terms and conditions when conveying the software, offering greater flexibility in combining GPLv2-licensed code with other licenses.

The source of that text is not clear to me. But it looks as if it might have been written by a proponent of GPLv3. It's fine if some people want to issue software under the terms of GPLv3 instead of GPLv2, but many people do not. Licensing is very contentious. Some people believe that without all software being licensed under GPLv3 humanity will be lost, but other people believe that much-more-permissive licenses work just as well in practice, or maybe even better (there are multiple large long-lived projects that use very permissive licenses).

missing-root I guess those things are meant?

My understanding is that the GrapheneOS developers do not want to end up in a situation where GrapheneOS can't be built and used without GPLv3 code, because they want it to be possible for manufacturers to ship devices to customers without the manufacturers being restricted by terms that are in GPLv3 and not in GPLv2.

Based on the quote provided by DeletedUser24 , one of the GPLv3 additional restrictions is that it must be possible for any user of a device to replace the software. That is not necessarily appropriate for devices meant to be deployed in high-security environments. It might be bad if a "user" with temporary access to a security camera could replace its firmware, so it might be good if a security camera had a locked bootloader. A situation that GPLv3 proponents might view as a bad thing and might call "Tivoization" might be considered "good security practice" by other people.

Please note that I do not speak for the GrapheneOS project.

missing-root

akc3n

akc3n thanks!

I have a question, as I find the statement about licensing pretty confusing.

Tivoization: GPLv2 allows for "Tivoization," meaning hardware devices can use the software without providing users the ability to modify and run their modified versions on the device. GPLv3 addresses this by requiring the device to allow installation of modified software.

Patent Termination: GPLv3 includes a provision that terminates patent licenses if someone initiates patent litigation against the software. GPLv2 lacks this feature, offering more flexibility regarding patent issues.

Additional Permissions: GPLv2 allows the distributor to add their own terms and conditions when conveying the software, offering greater flexibility in combining GPLv2-licensed code with other licenses.

I guess those things are meant? So preinstalled GrapheneOS without being able to install something else, or partly proprietary? Like what CopperheadOS tried to be but failed because of shitty people.

What does "it provides an immutable root of trust" have to do with the licensing? Because it is named in the same scentence.

So I understand that for this licensing every preinstalled software needs to be permissive too.

Interesting Wiki. Why is it externally hosted and not in the website header? Its really great!

It would be great having links to stuff like this in Vanadium, like many Linux Distros do it.

Another question:

...part of AOSP and provide crucial system functionality that other apps use, so their inclusion is necessary...

I only know the File manager with its portal. Are Contacts, Calendar, and more also dependend on the old AOSP apps?

There are for example the system apps "contact storage" or "saving of local contacts" which seem separated.

Or calendar: there is "calendar storage" which also seems to cover that and be external.

missing-root

Cant edit the comment a 3rd time, yay. So I saw the wiki is unofficial. Having it linked somewhere would be cool.

missing-root

de0u yes thats what I thought and it makes sense.

I also dont think its a big problem to not preinstall all those apps in the system partition. Still unanswered what those "necessary system functionalities" are that for example the Gallery or Calculator offer.

Afaik you could totally get rid of most apps, and instead automate the installation into the user partition (Fedora Silverblue does that with Flatpaks).

I think this would also highly improve security? I saw "clock app" is a permission in Android 14, automatically disabling battery saving etc. so it would work as expected.

I would kinda like the system partition to be shrunk in that case, as Google Android with all that junk will fill it up, while GrapheneOS will probably leave it half empty.